[PRCo] PRCo Route 59
John Swindler
j_swindler at hotmail.com
Tue Jul 9 16:23:23 EDT 2013
Of course, Dwight, one-person crew. And this was just prior to exact change.
Well, perhaps I should qualify that. There were a couple occasions where there was a two-person CTA bus crew. North Park didn't have trackless, so if you wanted to take a 'spin' in a Marmon on Grand or Pulaski, after completing your 'swing' shift, would meet up with a buddy working a p.m. out of North Ave. The "trade" was an occasional two-person bus crew on the Montrose-Irving extension which had 'new look' Flxibles.
> From: dwightlong at verizon.net
> To: pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 15:20:22 -0400
> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59
>
>
> John
>
> Did the CTA use two man crews on the buses? I did not think so, but who
> knows.
>
> When I first started traveling to South America in the 90s (hey, that's
> 1990s for you smart asses out there) most of the buses were two man
> operated.
>
> Dwight
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion"
> <pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 1:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59
>
>
>
> New Orleans had two man/women crews on St. Charles into the 'exact fare'
> era. On a 1971 visit, the women conductors only job was to open and close
> the door - maybe also give a 'two bell' signal. About all I recall of that
> visit was: "this is beyond stupid". As a disclaimer, this biased
> viewpoint was probably due to two summers driving buses for Chicago Transit
> Auth.
>
>
>
>
> > From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 12:57:24 -0400
> > To: pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> > Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59
> >
> > The route cards ended near the onset of World War II when PRC realized
> > they did not have the staff resources for such petty trivial things as
> > keeping paper records of every little diversion. Those route cards
> > showed everything…. If a fire downtown required a diversion for two
> > hours, they were posted to the cards. If a route was altered over night
> > so a switch could be replaced, the route cards were annotated.
> >
> > I did not waste my time typing every trivial detail. I only copied
> > permanent route changes. In an era where where schools are no longer
> > teaching children to read and write cursive, my objective was to create a
> > file that dumbed-down people could read if they were no longer able to
> > read the original route cards (which are in cursive).
> >
> > I did not have access to my old ERA Headlights magazines at the time.
> > They had been moved to the library at Arden and I was temporarily in an
> > apartment. I have inserted final abandonment dates but there are other
> > things that I don't have such as when the northside routes were shifted
> > from the 7th St/6th St loop to the 6th St. Bridge (it was sometime in
> > 1957).
> >
> > I also created several ancillary files such as the dates that low-floor
> > cars went into service on each route (they were usually in the route
> > cards) and the dates that the lines were fully one-man.
> >
> > By the way, if anyone gives a s**t, the one-man conversions were a
> > problem. There were sometimes dates posted in the route cards that
> > conflicted with scheduled manhours. I went with the hours. When the
> > weekday hours dropped to the point that it was obvious that the conductors
> > had finally disappeared, I took that as the date. The system was
> > completely converted to one-man in 1937 when the last trailers on West
> > View - Belleview (10, 11, 15) were replaced by single cars on Feb. 8, 1937
> > and route 13 lost its trailers 28 days later. Route 27 (Carnegie) began
> > weekday one-man cars in 1931 but the crew hours on weekdays did not drop
> > sufficiently to indicate complete loss of conductors until March 15, 1937.
> >
> > But the thing that amazed me about PRC was it had to be the largest system
> > in the nation to begin conversion to one-man cars and perhaps the first to
> > finish the job. The company attempted to put one-man cars on the Castle
> > Shannon - Mt. Lebanon shuttle in 1920 but went back to two-man cars when
> > the crews refused to work them. When they converted Bon Air, 36th St.
> > Transfer and North Washington in 1923, the company's attitude was more
> > along the lines of, 'we are the employer, you are the worker, you can work
> > where we put you or find another job. By 1930 route 82, one of the
> > heaviest lines in the system was fully one-man, seven days a week. Route
> > 87 Ardmore, hauling people from Wilkinsburg to the Westinghouse Electric
> > and Air Brake was one of the earliest conversions … November 10, 1924.
> > Route 88 Frankstown went one-man between 1930 and 1931.
> >
> > Now think of Chicago … the last routes in 1958 were two-man.
> > Philadelphia still had a small number of conductors in 1971. Illinois
> > Terminal never ran a PCC without a conductor. Boston had those
> > center-entrance cars that required conductors into the late 1940s. San
> > Francisco had conductors into the late 1950s. New Orleans had the second
> > man until the middle 1960s.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jul 9, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Dwight Long wrote:
> >
> > > Fred
> > >
> > > The final change to route 65, other than its discontinuance as a rail
> > > operation, was its extension from Munhall Loop to East Pittsburgh over
> > > the former route 55 trackage. Not sure when this occurred (when the
> > > Glenwood bridge was closed to trams) but it was in effect, AIR, until
> > > the end of tram operations from Lincoln Place. I took pictures of the
> > > operation in early 1965.
> > >
> > > Dwight
> > >
> > > From: Fred Schneider
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 09 July, 2013 11:35
> > > To: Western PA Trolley discussion
> > > Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59
> > > Route cards for route 506 Homestead and Homeville show the following (if
> > > I transcribed it correctly) … never did find anyone willing to proofread
> > > my work. There are certain dates such as 1930 and 1937 where they
> > > simply listed the routes even if they didn't change so the dates are not
> > > always indicative of a change unless it is so stated. Usually a change
> > > only shows the specific streets that were changed. fws
> > >
> > > January 1902 … from a point in Homeville along a township road through
> > > Munhall to 9th Avenue in Homestead and over 8th Avenue to Hays Street.
> > >
> > > 1917: From a point in Homeville-Greenspring Avenue, Ravine Street, 8th
> > > Avenue to Hays Street.
> > >
> > > July 17 to July 19, 1919; August 29 to Sept 1, 1919 and August 18 to
> > > August 22, 1919 … line split into two sections at bridge above Homeville
> > > Siding because of unsafe condition of bridge,
> > >
> > > August 10, 1925: Length of line: round trip 5.23 miles.
> > >
> > > May 14, 1927 to June 19, 1927: Shuttle service from Terrace Step stop
> > > to end of line, Homeville.
> > >
> > > Feb. 14, 1928: Route 506 combined with route 507 (Homestead-Mifflin).
> > > One man operation began. See route 507 for history 1928 to 1944.
> > >
> > > July 9, 1944: Began operation from Homeville to 18th and West Streets.
> > > Route 65 operating SE PCC cars from Munhall Loop to Lincoln Place loop.
> > > Route 59 used double end low-floor cars.
> > >
> > > March 7, 1953: Last full day of route 59.
> > > ______________________________________________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > Original route 507 operated only November 1902. Have not found route
> > > card.
> > >
> > > April 1, 1928: On this date, route 507 started under supervision of
> > > Pittsburgh Railways Company using schedules and equipment formerly used
> > > by Homestead and Mifflin Street Railway.
> > >
> > > August 24, 1928: Shuttle began operating between Lincoln Place and Main
> > > and McWhinney, also Main and McWhinney and 8th Avenue, Homestead.
> > >
> > > November 21, 1928: Through cars Lincoln Place to 13th and West
> > > Streets, Homestead.
> > >
> > > November 23, 1928: Through cars Lincoln Place to 8th and West Sts.,
> > > Homestead.
> > >
> > > December 14, 1928: Combined with route 506 Homeville and one-man
> > > operation began.
> > >
> > > January 1, 1930: Main St., Center Ave., Main St., Walnut Ave., 22nd
> > > Ave., West St., Amity St., 8th Ave., Munhall St., Ravine St.,
> > > Greenspring Ave. to Hays St. in Homeville.
> > >
> > > March 15, 1937: Lincoln Place along Interboro Avenue and Main St. to
> > > West St. to 12th St., Amith., 8th Ave., Munhall Junction, Ravine St.,
> > > Greenspring Ave. to High St.
> > >
> > > July 9, 1944: Homeville end split from Lincoln Place end and
> > > designated route 59. Lincoln Place to Munhall loop designated route
> > > 65. Muldfowney Loop in Lincoln Place opened this date permitting PCC
> > > service on route 65 and the line was extended eastward a short distance
> > > from Interboro Avenue to Muldowney Street.
> > >
> > > October 31, 1956 Transit Guide: Munhall to Lincoln Place over 8th
> > > Avenue in Munhall and McKeesport, Amity St., 12th St., West St., 22nd
> > > St., Interboro Ave. and private right-of-way to Muldowney Loop.
> > > Unchanged from July 9, 1944.
> > >
> > > Sept. 5, 1965: Last full day of service route 65.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:52 AM, Lattner, Raymond wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hello. I was looking at an older historic topo map and noticed that
> > >> route 59
> > >> traveled up Ravine Street and then split at the intersection of
> > >> Greensprings Ave., Coal Rd and Black Path (road names based on Google
> > >> Maps).
> > >>
> > >> One line continued up Greensprings Ave. to what is called Terrace and
> > >> ends at what I believe is High Street and Bowes Ave. The other line
> > >> on PRW seems to follow Duquesne Ave then Homestead Duquesne Rd to Coal
> > >> Rd. to terminate at Coal Rd. Extension and Bellwood Rd.
> > >>
> > >> I have attached that section of the map. My first question is, is this
> > >> correct? If so, how did these lines operate and what destinations
> > >> signs
> > >> were used? When did PRCo stop using the line to Bellwood Rd.? Maybe I
> > >> have this wrong and it could be a coal mine RR?
> > >>
> > >> If this was discussed before I apologize.
> > >>
> > >> Oh, map web site in case some of you do not have it.
> > >> http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/topomaps/f?p=262:1:4149522851964442
> > >>
> > >> Thanks.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Raymond E. Lattner
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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> > >
> > >
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