[PRCo] PRCo Route 59
John Swindler
j_swindler at hotmail.com
Wed Jul 10 09:25:13 EDT 2013
A possible problem with this destination sign is that picture is at South Hills Jct. and route 68 was converted to bus in 1958. The recollection is that Glenwood didn't close until later - circa 1959-60. Assuming this is a service car - looks like fare boxes are being pulled - then perhaps motorman put up an unused sign, or did Kennywood track last beyond 1958???
I was only in eighth grade at this time. As Ed, Fred and I once said in Johnstown: "we need to find an old geezer" This list has a few.
John, old geezer trainee
> From: rlattner at pa.gov
> To: pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 08:04:00 -0400
> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59
>
> Ok, attached is the Munhall Kennywood 55A picture at SHJ. Which is what you guys told me and makes it clear.
> The 55A outer loops would be Munhall or Kennywood.
>
> Ray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of John Swindler
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 12:06 AM
> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59
>
>
>
> There was a railfan photo stop at Munhall Loop. The destination sign reads: FARE $4.50 - with red background.
>
>
>
> > From: hrbran at cavtel.net
> > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 21:21:52 -0400
> > To: pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> > Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59
> >
> > Why don't you post the photo?
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:14 PM, Ray <rayprco53 at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Did find a picture at South Hills Junction with a sign that reads,
> > > 55A Homestead Munhall Kennywood. Which makes sense with what you
> > > guys are telling me.Relooking at my other pics, maybe it reads 55A
> > > Homestrad Munhall via 2 Ave. In my defense the pic of that is blurry.
> > >
> > > Sent from my LG Smartphone on Sprint
> > >
> > > Ray <rayprco53 at verizon.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Regarding 55A, roll sign reads Homestead Braddock via 2 Ave. What
> > > >is
> > > missing is E. Pgh. So i would assume it went to Braddock. Thats the
> > > pictures that i have. Is the rollsign maybe a fan trip sign?
> > > >
> > > >Sent from my LG Smartphone on Sprint
> > > >
> > > >Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>Ray
> > > >>
> > > >>I don't understand the question. It used the Munhall loop to turn
> > > >>back toward Pittsburgh, just as the 65 used it to turn back to Lincoln Place.
> > > >>55A did not go to Braddock. That was the 55 itself.
> > > >>
> > > >>Dwight
> > > >>
> > > >>----- Original Message -----
> > > >>From: "Ray" <rayprco53 at verizon.net>
> > > >>To: "Western PA Trolley discussion"
> > > >><pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
> > > >>Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 5:01 PM
> > > >>Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> Regarding 55A, how was the turn around Munhall loop? If it was
> > > >>> how did
> > > it
> > > >>> get to Braddock?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Sent from my LG Smartphone on Sprint
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>Ray
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>Same as 55, except outer end was Munhall Loop (and in summers
> > > >>>>1958 and prior at Kennywood Park).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>Dwight
> > > >>>>----- Original Message -----
> > > >>>>From: "Lattner, Raymond" <rlattner at pa.gov>
> > > >>>>To: "Western PA Trolley discussion"
> > > >>>><pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
> > > >>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 12:50 PM
> > > >>>>Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Since you guys brought up routes 65 and 55 trackage, can
> > > >>>>> someone
> > > provide
> > > >>>>> the route of 55A?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Thanks.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Yes, I now agree probably a coal rr on that side.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Oh one more thing, I was going through all my photos and I do
> > > >>>>> not
> > > have a
> > > >>>>> low floor type car with
> > > >>>>> a Forbes Field destination. Has anyone seen a photo of a low
> > > >>>>> floor
> > > type
> > > >>>>> car with this destination?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Thanks again.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Ray
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org
> > > >>>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org] On
> > > >>>>> Behalf
> > > Of
> > > >>>>> John Swindler
> > > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 12:36 PM
> > > >>>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
> > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Wasn't the 65 extension via Rankin Bridge to E. Pgh. when 58
> > > >>>>> and 55 converted to bus by PAT??? Might be due to Glenwood
> > > >>>>> bridge - or
> > > might
> > > >>>>> have been due to repaving of last mile of Second Ave. track
> > > >>>>> east of Greenfield Ave.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Going to guess summer of 1964. PAT had bought 150 new GM
> > > >>>>> buses, but story I heard was that some of the buses from
> > > >>>>> independents were much worse than expected. Otherwise 65 would
> > > >>>>> not have lasted a bit longer.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> There was an 'owl' car that ran S. Hills. Jct. out Second Ave.
> > > >>>>> to Munhall Loop (E. Pgh???) , then to Lincoln Place, back to
> > > >>>>> Munhall and then returned to S. Hills. Jct. There were a
> > > >>>>> bunch of PRMA members on
> > > that
> > > >>>>> last trip, but I managed to doze off around 4 a.m. and have no
> > > >>>>> recollection passing thru West Homestead on return trip.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> From: dwightlong at verizon.net
> > > >>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> > > >>>>>> Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 11:50:00 -0400
> > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Fred
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> The final change to route 65, other than its discontinuance
> > > >>>>>> as a
> > > rail
> > > >>>>>> operation, was its extension from Munhall Loop to East
> > > >>>>>> Pittsburgh
> > > over
> > > >>>>>> the former route 55 trackage. Not sure when this occurred
> > > >>>>>> (when the Glenwood bridge was closed to trams) but it was in
> > > >>>>>> effect, AIR,
> > > until
> > > >>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>> end of tram operations from Lincoln Place. I took pictures
> > > >>>>>> of the operation in early 1965.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Dwight
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> From: Fred Schneider
> > > >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 09 July, 2013 11:35
> > > >>>>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
> > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59 Route cards for route 506
> > > >>>>>> Homestead and Homeville show the following (if I transcribed
> > > >>>>>> it correctly) ... never did find anyone willing to
> > > >>>>>> proofread my work. There are certain dates such as 1930 and 1937
> > > >>>>>> where
> > > >>>>>> they simply listed the routes even if they didn't change so
> > > >>>>>> the
> > > dates
> > > >>>>>> are
> > > >>>>>> not always indicative of a change unless it is so stated. Usually
> > > a
> > > >>>>>> change only shows the specific streets that were changed.
> > > >>>>>> fws
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> January 1902 ... from a point in Homeville along a township
> > > >>>>>> road through Munhall to 9th Avenue in Homestead and over 8th
> > > >>>>>> Avenue to Hays
> > > Street.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> 1917: From a point in Homeville-Greenspring Avenue, Ravine
> > > >>>>>> Street,
> > > 8th
> > > >>>>>> Avenue to Hays Street.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> July 17 to July 19, 1919; August 29 to Sept 1, 1919 and
> > > >>>>>> August 18
> > > to
> > > >>>>>> August 22, 1919 ... line split into two sections at bridge
> > > >>>>>> above Homeville Siding because of unsafe condition of bridge,
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> August 10, 1925: Length of line: round trip 5.23 miles.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> May 14, 1927 to June 19, 1927: Shuttle service from Terrace
> > > >>>>>> Step
> > > stop
> > > >>>>>> to
> > > >>>>>> end of line, Homeville.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Feb. 14, 1928: Route 506 combined with route 507
> > > (Homestead-Mifflin).
> > > >>>>>> One man operation began. See route 507 for history 1928 to 1944.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> July 9, 1944: Began operation from Homeville to 18th and
> > > >>>>>> West
> > > Streets.
> > > >>>>>> Route 65 operating SE PCC cars from Munhall Loop to Lincoln
> > > >>>>>> Place
> > > loop.
> > > >>>>>> Route 59 used double end low-floor cars.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> March 7, 1953: Last full day of route 59.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > ____________________________________________________________________
> > > __
> > > >>>>>> ________________________________
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Original route 507 operated only November 1902. Have not
> > > >>>>>> found
> > > route
> > > >>>>>> card.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> April 1, 1928: On this date, route 507 started under supervision
> > > of
> > > >>>>>> Pittsburgh Railways Company using schedules and equipment
> > > >>>>>> formerly
> > > used
> > > >>>>>> by Homestead and Mifflin Street Railway.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> August 24, 1928: Shuttle began operating between Lincoln
> > > >>>>>> Place and Main and McWhinney, also Main and McWhinney and 8th
> > > >>>>>> Avenue, Homestead.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> November 21, 1928: Through cars Lincoln Place to 13th and West
> > > >>>>>> Streets,
> > > >>>>>> Homestead.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> November 23, 1928: Through cars Lincoln Place to 8th and
> > > >>>>>> West Sts., Homestead.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> December 14, 1928: Combined with route 506 Homeville and
> > > >>>>>> one-man operation began.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> January 1, 1930: Main St., Center Ave., Main St., Walnut
> > > >>>>>> Ave., 22nd Ave., West St., Amity St., 8th Ave., Munhall St.,
> > > >>>>>> Ravine St., Greenspring Ave. to Hays St. in Homeville.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> March 15, 1937: Lincoln Place along Interboro Avenue and Main St.
> > > to
> > > >>>>>> West St. to 12th St., Amith., 8th Ave., Munhall Junction,
> > > >>>>>> Ravine
> > > St.,
> > > >>>>>> Greenspring Ave. to High St.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> July 9, 1944: Homeville end split from Lincoln Place end and
> > > >>>>>> designated
> > > >>>>>> route 59. Lincoln Place to Munhall loop designated route 65.
> > > >>>>>> Muldfowney Loop in Lincoln Place opened this date permitting
> > > >>>>>> PCC service on route 65 and the line was extended eastward a
> > > >>>>>> short distance from Interboro Avenue to Muldowney Street.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> October 31, 1956 Transit Guide: Munhall to Lincoln Place
> > > >>>>>> over 8th Avenue in Munhall and McKeesport, Amity St., 12th
> > > >>>>>> St., West St., 22nd St., Interboro Ave. and private
> > > >>>>>> right-of-way to Muldowney Loop.
> > > Unchanged
> > > >>>>>> from July 9, 1944.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Sept. 5, 1965: Last full day of service route 65.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:52 AM, Lattner, Raymond wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> > Hello. I was looking at an older historic topo map and
> > > >>>>>> > noticed
> > > that
> > > >>>>>> > route 59 traveled up Ravine Street and then split at the
> > > >>>>>> > intersection of Greensprings Ave., Coal Rd and Black Path
> > > >>>>>> > (road names based
> > > on
> > > >>>>>> > Google Maps).
> > > >>>>>> >
> > > >>>>>> > One line continued up Greensprings Ave. to what is called
> > > >>>>>> > Tdג
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> > > ““““““““““““““ ÊWáB 'B “““““““““““““–£„„„„‚ ‚ ÖD‘¬ GF 6Ü÷VÁB v 2
> > > 67'V&&VB‚‚‡£„„„„‚ U$√†£„„„„‚ áGG ¢Úˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&r˜ ó W&÷ ñ¬˜
> > > óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó2ˆ GF 6Ü÷VÁG2Û# 3 s íˆ s CñSbˆ GF
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> > > ñ«v ó2 ÷ ñ∆ñÊr ∆ó7@£„„„„‚ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó4 ÷ ñ∆÷
> > > ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&p£„„„„‚ áGG 3¢Úˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&rˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ˆ∆ó7FñÊfÚ˜
> > > óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó0£„„„„‡£„„„„‡£„„„„‡£„„„„‡£„„„„‚
> > > ıııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııı£„„„„‚ óGG6'W&vÇ◊&
> > > ñ«v ó2 ÷ ñ∆ñÊr ∆ó7@£„„„„‚ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó4 ÷ ñ∆÷
> > > ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&p£„„„„‚ áGG 3¢Úˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&rˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ˆ∆ó7FñÊfÚ˜
> > > óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v
> > > ó0£„„„„‡£„„„‡£„„„‡£„„„‡£„„„‡£„„„Âııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııı
> > > ııııııııııı£„„„ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó2 ÷ ñ∆ñÊr ∆ó7@£„„„ óGG6'W&vÇ◊&
> > > ñ«v ó4 ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&p£„„„ÊáGG 3¢Úˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&rˆ÷ ñ∆÷!
> > > ‚ˆ∆ó7FñÊfÚ˜ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó0£„„‡£„„‡£„„‡£„„‡£„„‚
> > > ıııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııı£„„‚ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v
> > > ó2 ÷ ñ∆ñÊr ∆ó7@£„„‚ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó4 ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&p£„„‚ áGG
> > > 3¢Úˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&rˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ˆ∆ó7FñÊfÚ˜ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó2
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Herb Brannon
> > Back In The Burgh !
> > Let's Go Bucs
> >
> >
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