[PRCo] Pittsburgh Department Stores
Edward H. Lybarger
trams2 at comcast.net
Thu Oct 31 08:40:05 EDT 2013
He had a daughter with one of the girlfriends, who was a store employee. Don't recall if that was Grace or not; the biography is upstairs and I'm not.
-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of Dwight Long
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 1:20 PM
To: Western PA Trolley discussion
Subject: Re: [PRCo] Pittsburgh Department Stores
Fred
And as the rumour goes, a lot of girl friends as well.
At any rate Liliane died from lead poisoning not far from Fallingwater�self inflicted. Some accounts say it was from an overdose of sleeping pills�accidental. This was 1952. He married Grace two years later. They were only married for seven months before his death. So it is Liliane that was a partner in designing and building Fallingwater. She was also quite active in the Kaufmann�s store.
Dwight
From: Fred Schneider
Sent: Wednesday, 30 October, 2013 12:39
To: Western PA Trolley discussion
Subject: Re: [PRCo] Pittsburgh Department Stores
>From what I could find on line, I think he had two wives.
On Oct 30, 2013, at 8:22 AM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
> Edgar Kaufmann's wife was Liliane; Fallingwater is in Fayette County.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of Fred
> Schneider
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:02 PM
> To: Western PA Trolley discussion; Dwight Long
> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Pittsburgh Department Stores
>
> I had a charge card at Kaufmann's until it became Macys. I went in one
> night and the chap in men's clothing told me he didn't have time to help me
> . stocking shelves was more important work than selling clothes to a
> customer. He told me to "Wait on yourself." I asked for the store
> manager and forced him to call the head office and cancel my credit card.
> He said, you can do it on line. I said, "No, you are going to do it and
> explain to your superiors why I am pissed off."
>
> Back in 1931, when my mom graduated from Margaret Morrison College at
> Carnegie Tech., Mr. Kaufmann offered every girl in her class that didn't
> have employment, a job in his store . a charitable thing. She worked for
> the next four years for Mr. Kaufmann. He understood merchandising much
> better than his successors. His name even said so. Kaufmann is German for
> salesman. But in deference to the department stores today, they didn't
> have much choice. The discounted retailers taught us that price, not value
> was all that really mattered. If you sell shit cheap enough today, people
> will buy it.
>
> After I was married I discovered that my mom also had a friend from high
> school or college whose dad was the caretaker at Fallingwater. It was only
> after I visited the Edgar and Grace Kaufmann mansion in Somerset County that
> my mother let the cat out of the bag about Mr. McConahay (spelling may be
> wrong), and that she occasionally went out to Fallingwater with Charlotte on
> weekends when Kauffman wasn't there. I imagine everyone involved is dead
> now . my mother and the girl friend would both have been born about 1909 and
> the caretaker would be at least 20 years older. Edgar died in 1955, his
> wife about 1957 . the caretaker in probably about the same time. The
> caretaker's daughter lived in Lexington Mass . probably died in the 1980s or
> 90s like my parents.
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2013, at 9:48 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
>
>>
>> Fred
>>
>> OK, you did. But you misspelled Baer. Bear is someone up in Canada.
>>
>> Kaufmann & Baer came about because of a schism in the Kaufmann family. In
> turn Gimbels bought the building at 6th and Smithfield that housed K&B.
>>
>> And now only Kaufmann a/k/a Macy's is left.
>>
>> Dwight
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Fred Schneider
>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
>> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 8:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Pittsburgh Department Stores
>>
>>
>> I did not write that Kaufman's was at 6th and Smithfield. I wrote
> Kauffman and Bear. I did misspell Kaufman. But it was always on the
> northwest corner of 6th and Smithfield. You want proof:
>>
>> Look at the this 1929 map.
>>
>>
> http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?view=entry;cc=maps;
> entryid=x-29v10p05
>>
>> Here is a photo that is more recent.
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/army_arch/293068499/
>>
>> The church is Smithfield United Church of Christ at 620 Smithfield
> Street, on the north side of Smithfield, across from Gimbels. The picture
> was taken from Mellon Square.
>>
>> And it matches the street view of the building in google earth at the
> same spot today.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2013, at 7:47 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Fred
>>>
>>> Kaufman & Baer.
>>>
>>> But I don't understand the reference to Kaufmans being at 6th and
> Smithfield. AFAIK it was always at Diamond and Smithfield (and extending
> the whole block to Fifth).
>>>
>>> What am I missing here?
>>>
>>> I forgot Frank & Seder, another Pgh department store.
>>>
>>> But the real tragedy was the loss of Joseph Horne's.
>>>
>>> Dwight
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Fred Schneider
>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
>>> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 6:56 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning Leaves--and Coal
>>>
>>>
>>> Long befo. I thought Boggs and Buhl closed about 1950 because my
> mother's brother told a story of how he went to their going out of business
> sale to buy clothing for his kids . he had moved up to Cheswick in the huge
> Nov. 1950 storm. The story concluded with the store forgetting to send him
> the charge account bill and when he called to ask where it was, all their
> phones were disconnected.
>>>
>>> But this link claims it closed as a result of the opening of North Hills
> Mall in 1955 and the actual closure was in 1960.
>>>
>>> http://buhlplanetarium2.tripod.com/bio/boggsbuhl.htm
>>>
>>> Rosenbaums on Liberty Avenue dawntawn apparently also closed in 1960.
>>>
>>> http://www.lifeinwesternpa.org/viewDetail.asp?ID=56
>>>
>>> Gimbel's closed sometime in 1986 or 1987. The problem with having
> family that was in Pittsburgh back to the time of the Civil War is someone
> always told you of this or that connection. In this case, it was an aunt
> of my mom's who worked for Kauffman and Bear, the firm that had the store at
> 6th and Smithfield before Gimbel's.
>>>
>>>
> http://departmentstoremuseum.blogspot.com/2010/06/gimbels-pittsburgh-pennsyl
> vania.html
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimbels
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/army_arch/293068499/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 28, 2013, at 5:54 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fred
>>>>
>>>> If you are talking about da Burgh, my recollection is that both Boggs &
> Buhls and Rosenbaum's went under before Gimbels.
>>>>
>>>> But if you mean Lancaster------------
>>>>
>>>> Dwight
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Fred Schneider
>>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 12:16 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning Leaves--and Coal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Herb, I am not insulting Adam Gimbel. I am using "cheap" in the
> English language sense, not the way the American's have adulterated it to
> mean "crappy" or "no good". It means economical, as in the "cheap day
> return ticket" in Britain . translated means the bargain one day round trip
> ticket.
>>>>
>>>> Gimbels was the cheap (bargain) store but they were not in a position to
> compete with the likes of WalMart and it this area they were the first
> department store to fold. If I had to make a comparison, it would be the
> British Home Store . yes I have a favorite shirt with a BHS label. That's
> what happens when you vacationed so many times in Britain.
>>>>
>>>> Sadly, Gimbels was not only the economical store but locally they had
> some of the worst help too. He could not stay in business when WalMart or
> K-Mart had no help and he was paying for doofuses. I remember one day I
> went into the Gimbels store to buy something for my wife. A friend who was
> a PennDOT attorney was with me. He had just returned from a vacation in
> Japan. I could not get any of the sales girls to wait on me. They were
> all having a hen party. So I lead Gareth over until we were within hearing
> range of the goofing off sales clerks, and then looked at him and said, "Is
> it true what you told me . that in Japan the sales clerks actually are hired
> to wait on the customers?" He played it to the hilt and those girls went
> balistic. How dare you insult them by expecting them to work. They told
> us off at full volume. And naturally, we went to another store in the
> mall. I think I saw some other customers evacuating Adam Gimbel's store.
>
>>>>
>>>> I think there were some other problems too. Each region operated
> independently. My charge card for Gimbels in Lancaster was only good in
> the Philadelphia region stores. It was not valid in Pittsburgh or Chicago.
> It might get immediate clearance for a temporary card there but I had to
> apply there if I wanted credit.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, doesn't matter. They are gone.
>>>>
>>>> Saks? No such thing here. Nearest is in King of Prussia. And I
> never heard of a Barneys.. New York store isn't it?
>>>>
>>>> Lancaster County, Pa., was an area that thrived through the 1980s and
> then crashed. For many years we had lower wage rates than the national
> average, which means it isn't the place people who want really high wages
> come but it might be where a corporation wants to come to build a factory.
> All through the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, one company after another came here to
> exploit the cheap labor and the "Amish work ethic." The result was a
> doubling of the population from 1950 to 2000. But when you stress the local
> economy and push the unemployment rate down to half the national
> unemployment rate (it was actually as low here as 1.4 percent in the summer
> of 1964), that puts extreme pressure on wages. They rose. Unions become
> popular. So popular that one by one the factories close and the
> corporations decide we don't don't need this shit. This was a major
> garment manufacturing center . all those plants closed. Roughly 10,000
> shoe, garment and textile jobs vanished. Those jobs went first to Mexico
> under the North American Free Trade Agreement and then to China and
> southeast Asia. A lot of recreational vehicle plants were built here in
> the 1980s . we decided fuel is too expensive to tow those trailers so those
> plant closed. Armstrong once employed several thousand people here making
> linoleum and other resilient floor coverings .. they still do it but in
> right-to-work states and in new plants on one floor. In the 1960s RCA had
> about 3000 people building color TV sets here and in Wilkes-Barre; then
> they were introduced to Sony. Hamilton Watch used to employ almost 2000
> people making watches . no one wants quality watches . the last remnant of
> the company was sold to a Swiss firm . they're "out of here" and the
> building is an apartment now. We still have manufacturing but its about
> half the number of workers we had in that sector in 1970. We now have
> unemployment over 6% and routine shootings and burglaries as a means of
> supporting each other . it's called income transfer. We no longer have
> any upper end stores. We don't have as many upper income people today.
> I guess they're in Dallas today. But at my age, no reason to move.
>>>>
>>>> The sad thing about the crash here, Herb, was unlike Pittsburgh, it
> affected a young population to begin with. When steel went down in 1982 in
> Pittsburgh, it wasn't something new. They already had 20 years of on-again,
> off-again problems with the mills. Allegheny County's population was
> relatively stable after 1930 in the 1.4 to 1.6 million range. It actually
> began dropping from 1.629 million in 1960 to 1.450 million before the big
> collapse of steel in 1982 . the kids were already leaving home and going
> where the jobs were. You cannot have really high unemployment when people
> go directly from working to pensions . they are out of the labor force.
>>>>
>>>> But Lancaster was still growing rapidly when our crash came. We had
> 212,000 in 1940 and 423,000 in 1990 when things began to soften, 471,000 in
> 2000 and 519,000 in 2010. Part of the anomaly of a tapering economy along
> with growth is that we have also found ourselves within commuting distance
> of Philadelphia's suburban job market and now the same for the northeastern
> suburbs of Baltimore. For a while, until the state began to decide they
> didn't want workers, the northwestern part of this county was also
> attractive for people working in the state capital . only 20 minutes away on
> the train. Trouble is, Herb, if that guy gets laid off in Philadelphia he
> is still among the 6.5% unemployed in Lancaster. And, as you can see from
> those numbers, we have over 50,000 homes built in the last 40 years .. not
> the same as someone who built a house in Pittsburgh in 1935. When you have
> a couple who built a house in 1990 and the area crashes and they still have
> a mortgage, you have problems.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 27, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Don't let Adam Gimble hear you say that. Oh yes, I
> forgot.............all
>>>>> you Lancaster people only shop at Barneys and Saks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Fred Schneider
> <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah yes, Gimbels . the cheap department store. But like so many
> others
>>>>>> driven out of business by K-Mart, WalMart, Target and so forth, it no
>>>>>> longer exists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My first introduction to any form of electronic mail was a captive
>>>>>> in-house system that the state operated for its own departmental
>>>>>> operations. Today it's own system has been scrapped and it is using
> the
>>>>>> internet. But it was a fantastic system that allowed us to get stuff
> out
>>>>>> of Harrisburg the same day they got it . of course transmission was
>>>>>> excruciatingly slow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The earliest memory I have of any such system, however rudimentary,
> was
>>>>>> the state Job Bank which would have been in the very early 1970s.
> All job
>>>>>> orders, referral and placement transactions were scanned with a slow
> speed
>>>>>> rotary drum scanner about the same number of lines as an old
> television
>>>>>> screen and then sent over telephone lines to Harrisburg to be be
> processed
>>>>>> into the main frame computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hard to believe that, in the space of forty years, we have gone from
> that
>>>>>> to being able to send letters and photographs and drawings back and
> forth
>>>>>> to buddies anywhere in the world in real time. We can all remember
> when a
>>>>>> letter to Europe took a week to be delivered and now, if we are both
> awake
>>>>>> and near our computers at the same time, I can pass a half dozen
> e-mails
>>>>>> back and forth to the same person in Vienna or Berlin or rural eastern
>>>>>> England .. as we watch the postal service go bankrupt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2013, at 8:13 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>> There was a "kinda" Internet back in the early/mid 1980s. It was
> nothing
>>>>>>> like we're using today, however.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had just bought a brand new Commodore 64 complete system at Gimbles
> in
>>>>>>> downtown Pittsburgh. Interesting that both Gimbles and the Commodore
> 64
>>>>>>> have gone to the museum of memories. My C64 was very "cutting edge"
> for
>>>>>>> 1983/84 inasmuch as I had the keyboard, monitor ( nothing more than a
>>>>>>> television set with only green and black color), dataset (for
> programs
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> storage on cassette tape), two (mind you, two !) floppy disk drives
> (so I
>>>>>>> didn't have to switch between program and data-storage disks on only
> one
>>>>>>> disk drive), and a dot-matrix printer with these little DIP switches
> in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> back which could be set to produce ten different print styles, and a
>>>>>> little
>>>>>>> rectangle shaped box which plugged into the back of the keyboard and
> was
>>>>>>> called a "modem". For what I paid for all that stuff I could have
> used
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> same dollar amount today and purchased three or four complete
> computer
>>>>>>> set-ups.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, I wanted to use this investment to its fullest so I signed up
> for
>>>>>>> this service which was advertised as "connecting computers and their
>>>>>> users"
>>>>>>> for the purpose of transmitting "mail-like electronic messages" and
>>>>>>> providing "interest groups" on varying subject matter. It was, for
> all
>>>>>>> purposes, the beginning of the Internet. The "Mail-like electronic
>>>>>> message"
>>>>>>> service was called MCI Mail. You could send messages to other users
> who
>>>>>>> were on this system and you could also sent messages to people not on
> the
>>>>>>> service via this MCI Mail in selected US cities. For people not
> hooked
>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> the "network" via computer, the messages went to a MCI facility
> (located
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> several major cities, Pittsburgh included) and were then delivered by
> a
>>>>>>> messenger to any address in downtown Pittsburgh or the downtown area
> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> other cities in the network. The drawbacks were many, including the
>>>>>>> messenger service, the fact that only the downtown areas of several
> major
>>>>>>> cities could be accessed via this service, and the cost. This service
>>>>>> last
>>>>>>> only a few months as more and more people and businesses began using
>>>>>>> computers and became connected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There were no photographs on this system, only plain text. However,
> it
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> the start of what we have today and I'm happy that I was a part of
> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:00 PM, John Swindler
> <j_swindler at hotmail.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In 1968/9 Point Park College had a relatively new IBM System 360
>>>>>> computer.
>>>>>>>> It was a stand alone unit about 5-6 feet high. An instructor said
> that
>>>>>>>> the CPU took up less than a foot of this height - the rest was empty
>>>>>> space.
>>>>>>>> This was to fool purchasing agents who expected computers to be big
> and
>>>>>>>> bulky. Miniaturization was already occurring.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doubt if you were thinking of using the internet in early 1980s,
> Fred.
>>>>>>>> Mid-1990s, perhaps, but not 1980s.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A problem in the 1980s was the proliferation of computer
> manufacturers
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> non-compatible software. Also speed even when there was a program
> that
>>>>>>>> could convert from one language to another. We're talking 8086 and
> 286
>>>>>>>> chips. Today it seems that instantaneous just doesn't seem fast
>>>>>> enough. I
>>>>>>>> remember a LOTUS 1-2-3 spreadsheet. Enter a bunch of data, tell it
> to
>>>>>>>> compute, then go for a cup of coffee. It was used to produce the
>>>>>>>> Pennsylvania Mass Transit Statistical Report.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 02:04:10 +0000
>>>>>>>>> From: bobrathke at comcast.net
>>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning Leaves--and Coal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Most of us from the 1970's have these computer stories, Fred. I
> used
>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> first word processor in 1979 - a Digital computer the size of a
> small
>>>>>>>> refrigerator with a 9" monochrome screen, plus a noisy daisy-wheel
>>>>>> impact
>>>>>>>> printer. Hardly desktop, and no hard drive - the word processing
>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>> ran from an 8" floppy, and documents were stored on another 8"
> floppy.
>>>>>>>> Those floppies had the massive capacity of 840KB each. That Digital
>>>>>>>> computer cost $12,000, but it wasn't linked to anything, so in 1980
> the
>>>>>>>> company bought a modem to connect to another computer. That modem
> cost
>>>>>> $750.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion" <
>>>>>>>> pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 7:48:16 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning Leaves--and Coal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can recall when the state had a mammoth computer room in the L&I
>>>>>>>> Building in Harrisburg to handle all Employment Service data
> reporting
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> all the Unemployment Claims .. huge place on a raised floor to
>>>>>> accommodate
>>>>>>>> both the cabling and the air-conditing ducts to keep the main frame
>>>>>>>> computers cool.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Today I know what is sitting on my desk . each of them .. has far
> more
>>>>>>>> power than what put the man on the moon back in the 1960s.
> Probably
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> computers in most of our cars have more ooomph than that computer
> that
>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>> Armstrong on the moon.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the early 1980s, I was the head of an occupational information
>>>>>>>> program in Pennsylvania to provide data to schools and anyone else
> who
>>>>>>>> might need it . mostly for counseling kids. The federal government
>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>> it all done on main frame computers. In Pennsylvania, we were
> thinking
>>>>>>>> about doing it on desk top computers and passing out the information
> on
>>>>>>>> floppy disks or linking them by this new internet to desk tops in
>>>>>>>> Harrisburg. Washington told me that if we tried to do it that way,
> we
>>>>>>>> would not be given any grant money. Obviously someone who was
> making
>>>>>> main
>>>>>>>> frame computers had lobbied heavily to have things done his way.
>>>>>> Funny
>>>>>>>> thing about that . two years later, my successor told me that I had
> been
>>>>>>>> right and we're doing it your way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not your grandmother's Buick..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Fred
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2013, at 7:14 PM, Bob Rathke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In 1965 I wrote and produced a slide presentation for training
> U.S.
>>>>>>>> Steel's customer service people in their offices around the U.S. I
> made
>>>>>>>> several visits to the Muriel St. facility to get background
> information
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> U.S. Steel's computer capabilities. I remember being impressed with
> the
>>>>>>>> building's climate controlled environment and the raised floors to
>>>>>>>> accomodate under-floor computer cables.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Today, an i-pad is probably more powerful that the computer system
> in
>>>>>>>> that building in 1965.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Derrick Brashear" <shadow at dementix.org>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion" <
>>>>>>>> pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 5:05:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning Leaves--and Coal
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it's a computer center
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 12:46 AM, Bob Rathke
> <bobrathke at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In the 1970's, USS's Muriel St. facility was the Direct Mail
> Center -
>>>>>>>>>>> computer operations, literature storage and fulfillment. If it's
>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>>>> there, I'm not sure about its current function.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Herb Brannon" <hrbran at cavtel.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion" <
>>>>>>>>>>> pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 10:16:14 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning Leaves--and Coal
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that back in the "big steel" days the main producers of
>>>>>>>> smoke and
>>>>>>>>>>> fire were the USS Homestead Works and just about everything J & L
> had
>>>>>>>>>>> operating.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> USS also has some type of operation on Muriel Street in
> Southside.
>>>>>>>> I'm not
>>>>>>>>>>> sure what they do there, however. USS also has a research center
> in
>>>>>>>>>>> Homestead still operating. Even with all these operating
> facilities,
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> number of people employed by USS comes nowhere near what those
>>>>>>>> facilities
>>>>>>>>>>> used to employ.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Dwight Long <
>>>>>> dwightlong at verizon.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But Irvin works is not a primary producer but rather a rolling
> mill
>>>>>>>> (as
>>>>>>>>>>>> you said) and so would not generate the "fire and brimstone"
> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> characterized a primary steel producer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I went by Clairton on a train in July and did not notice any
> smoke
>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>> all,
>>>>>>>>>>>> just some condensed water vapor. I think the coking processes
> are
>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>> contained these days that very little emissions emanate from it.
>>>>>>>> Besides
>>>>>>>>>>>> environmental concerns, the steelmakers have learned that the
>>>>>>>> effluents
>>>>>>>>>>>> from the coke making process are valuable by products that need
> to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> trapped and sold. The days of the beehive coke ovens that
> spewed
>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>>>> byproducts into the atmosphere are long gone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dwight
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Herb Brannon
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 10:41 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning Leaves--and Coal
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob R,
>>>>>>>>>>>> It still had that "orange glow" when I first moved here in 1972.
>>>>>>>> Plus,
>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>> atmospheric conditions were right, it smelled like fire &
>>>>>>>> brimstone,
>>>>>>>>>>>> everywhere. Even today, on humid days, I still smell the "fire
> &
>>>>>>>>>>>> brimstone" coming from the Irvin Works just over the hill (on
> Camp
>>>>>>>>>>> Hollow
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rd) to the south-east of my place.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Contrary to popular opinion steel is not dead in Pittsburgh. The
>>>>>>>>>>> Clairton
>>>>>>>>>>>> Works still produces coke as it always did, the Edgar Thompson
>>>>>>>> Works
>>>>>>>>>>>> makes
>>>>>>>>>>>> primary steel, the Irvin Works produces rolled steel and the
>>>>>>>> relatively
>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mckeesport Tubular Works (old National Works, now reopened)
> makes
>>>>>>>>>>> tubular
>>>>>>>>>>>> products for the Marcellus Shale drilling industry. So the
> sulphur
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> fire
>>>>>>>>>>>> & brimstone can still be smelled on humid days and the orange
> glow
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>>>>> available in Braddock and Clairton.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Bob Rathke
> <bobrathke at comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Driving south from Zelienople at night in the 1950's you didn't
>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> compass to locate Pittsburgh - the sky there always had an
> orange
>>>>>>>>>>> glow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 10:16:09 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning Leaves--and Coal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Was chatting with some PTM visitors yesterday, and among the
>>>>>>>>>>> "Pittsburg
>>>>>>>>>>>>> smells" mentioned was J&L sulfur smell upon exiting Squirrel
> Hill
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tunnels
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and heading downgrade to Brady St. exit. They were old enough
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>> air pollution from late 1940s - (before my time).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: dwightlong at verizon.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:04:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning Leaves--and Coal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Beaver burning next to the curb was OK on concrete streets
>>>>>>>> (we
>>>>>>>>>>>> lived
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on one) or brick ones (still several left in the 50s) but not
> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> asphalt
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor tarred ones!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tar? When I was in first or second grade I came home from
>>>>>>>> school
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lunch. On the way back to school the alley that I used as a
>>>>>>>> shortcut
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> being freshly tarred. I followed the tar dispensing truck,
>>>>>>>>>>> fascinated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I got to school I was sent home immediately. I looked
>>>>>>>> like the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> proverbial tarbaby. Lots of turpentine and stiff scrubbing
>>>>>>>> later,
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new suit of clothes, I returned and was admitted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And we still had plenty of coal furnaces in our town back
> then,
>>>>>>>>>>>> although
>>>>>>>>>>>>> our house used gas. I well recall the smell of the coal
> burning
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> cold
>>>>>>>>>>>>> winter days whilst delivering the Pittsburgh Press to my paper
>>>>>>>> route
>>>>>>>>>>>>> customers. The last time I encountered that smell was just a
> few
>>>>>>>>>>>> years ago
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a suburb of Budapest while fotting the trams there. Brought
>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>> memories!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dwight
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Herb Brannon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, 21 October, 2013 10:48
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning Leaves
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I was a child, in Akron, the common practice was to burn
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> leaves
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the street but along the curb stones. Sometimes the piles
> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> leaves
>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so large that the fires would become too large and would
>>>>>>>> spread to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treelawn. Then the fire department would be called to put out
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> fires.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made for an exciting day or evening. Ranking right up there
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> smell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of burning leaves are also the smell of coal smoke and the
>>>>>>>> smell of
>>>>>>>>>>>> fresh
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tar.............three of the "little joys of life" now gone by
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wayside.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Dwight Long <
>>>>>>>>>>>> dwightlong at verizon.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can remember back in the 50s coming back to Beaver from
>>>>>>>> auto
>>>>>>>>>>>> trips to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the East that involved the Pa Turnpike-we would use the
>>>>>>>>>>> Warrendale
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exit and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the back roads to Beaver. Coming down into the (Beaver)
>>>>>>>> valley
>>>>>>>>>>>> off the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hill the whole floor of the valley would be engulfed in leaf
>>>>>>>>>>> smoke.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unhealthy, they say, but it sure did convey the impression
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> Autumn
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon us!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dwight
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Herb Brannon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 20 October, 2013 10:36
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Phil asked about music
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You mentioned something I really miss.............the smell
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> burning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaves in October.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:37 AM, DF Cramer <
>>>>>>>>>>>> alto_trombone at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, what have I been up to? The beginning of the month I
>>>>>>>>>>>> performed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copland, Brahms, & Dvorak with the Butler County
>>>>>>>> Symphony,our
>>>>>>>>>>> (my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wife
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plays cello) 28th season with the ensemble. I am back at
>>>>>>>> IUP
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two arrangements of French Noels from the Baroque period to
>>>>>>>>>>>> begin the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semester and last week conducted a first reading of my "The
>>>>>>>>>>>> Eternal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flame",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a commemorative piece for double trombone choir and
>>>>>>>> narrator I
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mark the 50th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination.
>>>>>>>> All of
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performed on November 19 at the university. Next week I
>>>>>>>> perform
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IUP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brass & organ faculty at Zion Lutheran in Indiana for
>>>>>>>>>>> Reformation
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sunday
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the following week we are doing Charlie Chaplin's "City
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lights"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Butler. Chaplin created the musical score for this silent
>>>>>>>> film
>>>>>>>>>>>> and we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be showing the film as we perform. (Side note: if you want
>>>>>>>>>>>> tickets
>>>>>>>>>>>>> let me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know as soon as possible--I usually get 4 free ones)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other than that, I spent quality time with Ed at the
>>>>>>>> Alle-Kiski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Historical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Society, led a new operator training class at PTM, printed
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuffed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ballots for PTM, and am going to the opera today to see
>>>>>>>> Aida
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (football
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alert--Franco Harris is leading the Grand March in the
>>>>>>>> opera
>>>>>>>>>>>> today)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I spend lots of time practicing and cleaning up leaves. I
>>>>>>>>>>> mulch
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burn others---yes we are still permitted to burn here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you missed it--I also performed at the PTM 50th
>>>>>>>> Anniversary
>>>>>>>>>>>>> luncheon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See the most recent issue of PTM Trolley Fare, Fred
>>>>>>>> Schneider
>>>>>>>>>>>> took
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great images.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dennis F. Cramer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://home.windstream.net/dfc1/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 05:49:49 -0700
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: pcc_sr at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] still having issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stereo-vision isn't it Mr.Cramer! Soapbox opportunity;
>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have not recently mentioned anything about your
>>>>>>>> concert
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> music
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> engagements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I find them fascinating. Music is not at all unlike
>>>>>>>> laughter
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both speak a universal language.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes; BB are the last posts I have seen. There was not
>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before your BB posts for several weeks. You mentioned a
>>>>>>>> book
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> relation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to this; please tell more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10/19/13, DF Cramer <alto_trombone at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] still having issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Saturday, October 19, 2013, 3:52 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it seemed very interesting that after
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I posted on the list, several emails came through. I
>>>>>>>> assume
>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responding with reply all. I have received no posts from
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than those dealing with Billy Baxter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dennis F. Cramer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://home.windstream.net/dfc1/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 20/9fb2601a/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Pittsburgh...*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *......the Greatest City In The U.S.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go Pens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go Steelers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 20/d92cc5ec/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 21/0e66d86f/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Pittsburgh...*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *......the Greatest City In The U.S.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go Pens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go Steelers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 21/d430bad4/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 21/f38f69c0/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 21/c545651e/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 21/ef4874f2/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Pittsburgh...*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *......the Greatest City In The U.S.*
>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go Pens
>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go Steelers
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 21/4b939712/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 21/72c41870/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>>>>>>> *In Pittsburgh...*
>>>>>>>>>>> *......the Greatest City In The U.S.*
>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go Pens
>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go Steelers
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 21/f8c35954/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 22/23a4cf6d/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 25/2db42ba5/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 25/6b290fde/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 26/2a158b1b/attachment.html
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 25/03029e96/attachment.html
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>>> *In Pittsburgh...*
>>>>>>> *......the Greatest City In The U.S.*
>>>>>>> Let's Go Pens
>>>>>>> Let's Go Steelers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 26/862731ce/attachment.html
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>> *In Pittsburgh...*
>>>>> *......the Greatest City In The U.S.*
>>>>> Let's Go Pens
>>>>> Let's Go Steelers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL:
> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310
> 27/7f2d2d6b/attachment.html
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>> URL:
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> 28/b1bfbdd5/attachment.html
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> 28/26a6bb5c/attachment.html
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
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