[PRCo] so what was done to west penn 714?

Edward H. Lybarger trams2 at comcast.net
Wed Dec 3 14:56:53 EST 2014 

The freight cars had HL or equivalent control but they also had air brakes.
The passenger cars except the 830s did not.  The document refers to some
other company's car 714.

-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Schneider [mailto:fwschneider at comcast.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 2:31 PM
To: D Brashear; Western PA Trolley discussion
Cc: Edward H. Lybarger
Subject: Re: [PRCo] so what was done to west penn 714?

My thoughts on the subject are simply that I do not remember reading
anything previously on West Penn cars without B controllers except for cars
on the Leechburg and Apollo, Kittanning and Ford City, and Allegheny Valley
(Tarentum) lines and the box motors which had to be multiple-unit
compatible.   

My very weak recollection is that the box motors had Westinghouse HL control
but I cannot find where I put the documentation.  That would be a logical
choice but it would have required air under normal circumstances.   (The
exception to the rule was Pittsburgh Railways which had Westinghouse
fabricate a knock-off of the GE type M design for the 5000s, 5100s, 5200s
and 3750s which used magnetic or solenoid switches.   But the normal
Westinghouse unit switch control used pneumatic switches.)   

But I would ask you, why would a company with the brain power that West Penn
had be crazy enough to take one car and fit it with a different control
scheme?   To drive the shop men nuts?   To spend money they didn't have?
They were not that insane.  

Another clue that this is not West Penn 714: On page 2 there is a mention of
motorman's cab heaters and thermostats for cab heat.   This suggests
enclosed cabs.   The West Penn 700s did not have enclosed cabs.  

The mention of a trolley change switch is confusing.   I am wondering if
this might not have been a car designed for 1200-600 volt operation with a
change/over switch????   Of course West Penn was entirely 700 volts in the
Coke Region and 550-600 elsewhere.



On Dec 3, 2014, at 11:59 AM, D Brashear via Pittsburgh-railways wrote:

> that was my speculation. the headsign is clearly west penn and i 
> suspect nothing else actually is
> 
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Edward H. Lybarger 
> <trams2 at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> The 250s that survived the arrival of the 830s were taken to 
>> Connellsville no later than May 1937 and were scrapped soon 
>> thereafter.  It is unlikely they were ever in service on the Irwin 
>> route, the dash sign for which would have contained Trafford as the 
>> westernmost community on the line at that point in time, so that artifact
is clearly not from a West Penn "car 255."
>> The West Penn headlights we have in our archive are not labeled for 
>> specific car numbers; that doesn't say AV didn't do that, but I have 
>> no evidence that they did.  Headlights were completely 
>> interchangeable, as were the destination signs (except for those on 
>> the 830s), thus it is extremely unlikely that West Penn would have 
>> spent the time and money to number them for individual cars.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This is not a matched pair!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *From:* D Brashear [mailto:shadow at gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 03, 2014 11:19 AM
>> 
>> *To:* Edward H. Lybarger
>> *Cc:* Western PA Trolley discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [PRCo] so what was done to west penn 714?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> well, no claim the headsign was from 255, only the headlight.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Edward H. Lybarger 
>> <trams2 at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 250-262 were ex-Allegheny Valley cars and did not have permanent 
>> headlights.  Neither did they have headsigns, as you note.  I detect 
>> snake oil.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *From:* D Brashear [mailto:shadow at gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 03, 2014 9:36 AM
>> *To:* Edward H. Lybarger
>> 
>> 
>> *Cc:* Western PA Trolley discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [PRCo] so what was done to west penn 714?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> seemed fishy to me, he also posted a pic of a west penn headsign 
>> (sure) and a headlight he claimed was from west penn 255. so.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Edward H. Lybarger 
>> <trams2 at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> There is a reference to other HL equipment in this document.  
>> Certainly not applicable to any West Penn passenger cars.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pittsburgh-railways
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf 
>> Of D Brashear via Pittsburgh-railways
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 7:44 AM
>> To: Dwight Long
>> Cc: Western PA Trolley discussion
>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] so what was done to west penn 714?
>> 
>> Well, that's the claim.
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> WP????714?
>>> 
>>> Dwight
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* D Brashear via Pittsburgh-railways 
>>> <pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
>>> *To:* Western PA Trolley discussion
>>> <pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 02, 2014 10:40 PM
>>> *Subject:* [PRCo] so what was done to west penn 714?
>> 
>>> 
>>> as seen on the book of faces.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> D
>>> 
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