[PRCo] so what was done to west penn 714?

Wed Dec 3 14:30:54 EST 2014

My thoughts on the subject are simply that I do not remember reading anything previously on West Penn cars without B controllers except for cars on the Leechburg and Apollo, Kittanning and Ford City, and Allegheny Valley (Tarentum) lines and the box motors which had to be multiple-unit compatible.   

My very weak recollection is that the box motors had Westinghouse HL control but I cannot find where I put the documentation.  That would be a logical choice but it would have required air under normal circumstances.   (The exception to the rule was Pittsburgh Railways which had Westinghouse fabricate a knock-off of the GE type M design for the 5000s, 5100s, 5200s and 3750s which used magnetic or solenoid switches.   But the normal Westinghouse unit switch control used pneumatic switches.)   

But I would ask you, why would a company with the brain power that West Penn had be crazy enough to take one car and fit it with a different control scheme?   To drive the shop men nuts?   To spend money they didn't have?   They were not that insane.  

Another clue that this is not West Penn 714: On page 2 there is a mention of motorman's cab heaters and thermostats for cab heat.   This suggests enclosed cabs.   The West Penn 700s did not have enclosed cabs.  

The mention of a trolley change switch is confusing.   I am wondering if this might not have been a car designed for 1200-600 volt operation with a change/over switch????   Of course West Penn was entirely 700 volts in the Coke Region and 550-600 elsewhere.

On Dec 3, 2014, at 11:59 AM, D Brashear via Pittsburgh-railways wrote:

> that was my speculation. the headsign is clearly west penn and i suspect
> nothing else actually is
> 
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> The 250s that survived the arrival of the 830s were taken to Connellsville
>> no later than May 1937 and were scrapped soon thereafter.  It is unlikely
>> they were ever in service on the Irwin route, the dash sign for which would
>> have contained Trafford as the westernmost community on the line at that
>> point in time, so that artifact is clearly not from a West Penn “car 255.”
>> The West Penn headlights we have in our archive are not labeled for
>> specific car numbers; that doesn’t say AV didn’t do that, but I have no
>> evidence that they did.  Headlights were completely interchangeable, as
>> were the destination signs (except for those on the 830s), thus it is
>> extremely unlikely that West Penn would have spent the time and money to
>> number them for individual cars.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This is not a matched pair!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *From:* D Brashear [mailto:shadow at gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 03, 2014 11:19 AM
>> 
>> *To:* Edward H. Lybarger
>> *Cc:* Western PA Trolley discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [PRCo] so what was done to west penn 714?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> well, no claim the headsign was from 255, only the headlight.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 250-262 were ex-Allegheny Valley cars and did not have permanent
>> headlights.  Neither did they have headsigns, as you note.  I detect snake
>> oil.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *From:* D Brashear [mailto:shadow at gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 03, 2014 9:36 AM
>> *To:* Edward H. Lybarger
>> 
>> 
>> *Cc:* Western PA Trolley discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [PRCo] so what was done to west penn 714?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> seemed fishy to me, he also posted a pic of a west penn headsign (sure)
>> and a headlight he claimed was from west penn 255. so.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> There is a reference to other HL equipment in this document.  Certainly not
>> applicable to any West Penn passenger cars.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pittsburgh-railways
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of D
>> Brashear via Pittsburgh-railways
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 7:44 AM
>> To: Dwight Long
>> Cc: Western PA Trolley discussion
>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] so what was done to west penn 714?
>> 
>> Well, that's the claim.
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> WP????714?
>>> 
>>> Dwight
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* D Brashear via Pittsburgh-railways
>>> <pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
>>> *To:* Western PA Trolley discussion
>>> <pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 02, 2014 10:40 PM
>>> *Subject:* [PRCo] so what was done to west penn 714?
>> 
>>> 
>>> as seen on the book of faces.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> D
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>> scrubbed...
>>> URL: <
>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/
>>> 20141202/08bdd216/attachment.html
>>>> 
>>> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was
>>> scrubbed...
>>> Name: 10841941_830157677045942_7553151269751735609_o.jpg
>>> Type: image/jpeg
>>> Size: 254221 bytes
>>> Desc: not available
>>> URL: <
>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/
>>> 20141202/08bdd216/attachment.jpg
>>>> 
>>> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was
>>> scrubbed...
>>> Name: 10628672_830157830379260_2884469932776651688_o.jpg
>>> Type: image/jpeg
>>> Size: 284817 bytes
>>> Desc: not available
>>> URL: <
>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/
>>> 20141202/08bdd216/attachment-0001.jpg
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> D
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> <
>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20141
>> 
>> 203/dd33dc0c/attachment.html>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> D
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> <http://www.avast.com/>
>> 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> D
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>>   <http://www.avast.com/>
>> 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> D
> 
> 
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20141203/f2027bdd/attachment.html>
> _______________________________________________
> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways