[PRCo] Greensburg and North Vandergrift questions

Sun Dec 14 14:00:32 EST 2014

-----Original Message-----
From: Pittsburgh-railways
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of
Stephen Titchenal via Pittsburgh-railways
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2014 11:55 AM
To: 'Western PA Trolley discussion'
Subject: [PRCo] Greensburg and North Vandergrift questions

I'm starting to update my route maps for the Pittsburgh Area Interurban
Lines, in advance of visiting the PTM Archive next year.

Questions related to Interurban routes:

Greensburg: 

1.       The maps in the CERA West Penn Traction book and the PTM West Penn
Railways booklet are different.  CERA shows a turn on the Otterman line at
Hamilton extending to Ludwick, but the PTM map shows it ending at Hamilton
and Otterman.

I cannot substantiate a turn onto Hamilton Avenue.  The company track book
indicates that the end of line was 159 feet beyond Hamilton, but I believe
that to have been on Pennsylvania Avenue.  The topography also does not
support a terminus on Hamilton...it would have been on a noticeable grade,
whereas Pittsburgh Street is essentially flat at this point.

2.       The CERA map shows the line on Alexander extending to Weaver before
turning onto Green. The PTM map shows the line on Alexander extending only
to Stanton (misspelled Station?) before turning onto Green.

Company maps clearly show the route as Alexander to "Station" to Greene.
Abandonment petition (A-23555, 1931) clearly defines the route as well,
except that it gets the street name -- Stanton -- correct.  The track on
this line was never shifted...the 1890-91 report to the state indicates that
the line opened October 20, 1890 over this routing.

There is a 1949 and 1950 Greensburg Map at Penn State Map Library. Anybody
checked that or another contemporary map to confirm the correct locations?
Or have access to another map of Greensburg from before the abandonment?

Reports to the state (1891) and the abandonment petitions (1931)
substantiate the route.

North Vandergrift:

                The map in Dennis Cramer's Trolleys of Armstrong County
seems to show the line closer to the river than my tracing from the 1938
aerials and digital elevation data. It sure looks like it would have been on
a private right-of-way west of Lincoln Ave until it joined Lincoln Ave (rt
66) around 3rd St and then continued along Lincoln until going back on
private right-of-way east of town but Dennis and Ed must have a reason for
showing the route which I assume follows the alley between Lincoln and
Jefferson?

My own map shows the line running in Lincoln Avenue.  The company track book
indicates that there was a 2065-foot stretch of street running here, with 23
feet of that paved, presumably at the main intersection.  I think we are
wrong in the book.  There is no evidence that the line crossed any roads in
or near North Vandergrift.

Latrobe:

                The discussion last year on the list and the map Bob Netzlof
drew clears up questions I had, but also shows the Westmorland County Street
Railway that I cannot find any route documentation for.  

I have the map of this company that was included in the abandonment petition
(A24319, 1932).  It is hand-drawn and rough, but does contain detail.  The
entry into Derry is clearly discernable on PennPilot aerial photos, and my
own map is pretty complete.

FYI 

Penn State Library Digital Collection includes a

1920 Lewis' Pittsburgh Street & Trolley Guide

http://collection1.libraries.psu.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/digitalbk
s2/id/15293/rec/3

I have attached a spreadsheet with the Suburban lines transcribed. Lewis
gives the Routes a letter/number designation. I am assuming these were
assigned by Lewis rather than as an official designation of the Routes. For
some reason there is no Route B or H. Were these in earlier Lewis guides and
abandoned before 1920?

We have a number of Lewis's Guides and would have to check.  The route
designations were the publisher's.

Ed

Stephen Titchenal

Stephen at Titchenal.com

railsandtrails.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20141
214/952c4880/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: NorthVandergrift.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 123800 bytes
Desc: not available
URL:
<http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20141
214/952c4880/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Pittsburgh Interurban Lines Lewis 1920.xlsx
Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.spreadsheetml.sheet
Size: 13807 bytes
Desc: not available
URL:
<http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20141
214/952c4880/attachment.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: PittsburghElectricLines1920Lewis OmnipageOCR.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 479565 bytes
Desc: not available
URL:
<http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20141
214/952c4880/attachment.pdf>
_______________________________________________
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com