[PRCo] UMW blamed for diesels

Thu May 15 10:29:56 EDT 2014

Timing is often overlooked.  Good point.

Could railroads dieselized earlier??  I doubt it.  Maybe diesel engine technology needed improved dependability from forced WW2 requirements???  (dunno - just raising question)  

Same with jet engines.  How many crashes before jet airline travel became a reasonable safe alternative??   And the price became more than competitive??  I was paying the same price for air fare to Europe in 1988-2004 as I paid in 1968/9.  (again, dunno - this is Ed's bailiwick) 

The railroads could have invested in new steam locos after WW2, as was the case in much of Europe.  But fuel was cheap in US and labor was expensive.  Oil had to be imported to Europe with expensive US dollars.  For Europe, coal was cheap, and so was labor.  It took me only a couple days during summer of 1969 to earn more than what London Transport was paying their conductors for the month.

Related to 'timing' is the necessary support systems for a new technology.  Consider computers, for example.  What good is the computer without the associated software and other systems??  

> From: trams2 at comcast.net
> To: pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 09:10:00 -0400
> Subject: Re: [PRCo] UMW blamed for diesels
> 
> We also need to consider the timing...railroads could have converted to
> diesels much earlier than they did, but would have had to write off a large
> amount of investment to do so.  By the end of the war, though, a lot of that
> investment was simply worn out and had to be replaced anyway.  At this point
> the railroads were simply following the dollars and buying the most
> transportation they could get for the buck.  Steam locomotives and their
> attendant infrastructure were horribly inefficient, and did not get replaced
> in kind.  John L. Lewis was a side show.
> 
> Ed
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of Fred
> Schneider
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 9:01 AM
> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
> Subject: Re: [PRCo] UMW blamed for diesels
> 
> 
> I think we have to look at everything ..
> 
> 1.   Smoke control laws.
> 
> 2.   UMW strikes making it hard to get coal.
> 
> 3.   Economics of running steam . we can lay off 4 out of every 5 workers
> and well a lot of ground we had used for shop buildings.  Might even be able
> to sell some shop buildings to other people for factories but that isn't too
> likely.
> 
> 4.   No need for water in the deserts of the American west.   
> 
> 5.   Locomotive availability . that diesel will run for thousands of miles
> before it needs any servicing.   Fueling can be done from a truck driven up
> to the railroad . we don't need water columns, tanks, coal tipples.   And
> the steam engine will run about 100 miles between service stops and it needs
> a lot of spare engines along the way because it likes to self destruct.  
> 
> An example of the self destruct concept..   When the PRR ran steam from
> Philadelphia to Harrisburg, there was a K4s stationed in Lancaster as a
> protect engine.   In the evening it sat in the station facing west because
> most trains ran west in the evening.   In the morning in faced east.
> Always with a crew on it.   John Bowman told the story of standing in the
> cab of that K4 one day talking when he was told to jump off NOW.   The
> signals had changed to clear on the pocket track.  They were going to work.
> In January 1938, when the wires were energized to Harrisburg, the protect
> engine was no longer needed.  
> 
> The steam engine may have been pretty to the railfan . dynamic . great to
> watch.   But we have to think how many billions of dollars were saved by
> scrapping them ..... and how much cleaner the sky is over Pittsburgh,
> Pitcairn, Glenwood, Rook, McKees Rocks and other places.  
> 
> I've been sending these guys some interesting articles on Pittsburgh
> Railways.   I have ignored the smoke control stories but they are there too.
> And there was an occasional picture of downtown on days when you couldn't
> see the top of the Gulf Building from the street.   
> 
> 
> On May 15, 2014, at 8:21 AM, John Swindler wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Easier to blame another industry/organization than to look at the
> economics of railroad operation.  Some of David Morgan's writing talk about
> the reduction/elimination of labor costs associated with conversion to
> diesel - despite the high initial capital costs for diesel operation.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> >> Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 14:33:45 -0400
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> >> Subject: [PRCo] UMW blamed for diesels
> >> 
> >> Writer forgets that the PRR announced several days earlier that it would
> cooperate with smoke control.   Blame cannot be totally based on either
> smoke control, economics or John L. Lewis and his boys.  
> >> 
> >> http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FisbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6kwEAAAAIBAJ&p
> >> g=3025%2C2594239
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
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