[PRCo] Re: PITTSBURGH PCC ROLLSIGNS

[John Swindler]

>Fred Schneider mentioned:
>
>There were a wide variety of owl routes, and also combinations that took 
>place after abandonment of some routes ... such as the paving of West 
>Liberty Avenue between Brookline Blvd. and Dormont Junction lead to 42/38 
>as a regular route,


The repaving was between Brookline Jct. (rj.  W. Liberty Ave. and Brookline 
Blvd) and Dormont Wye.

Dormont Jct. was at the south end of Palm Garden trestle where 42 line 
branched off from 38 and 39 line.


>diminished patronage in the 1950s lead to a 6/13 owl (later full time under 
>PAT) to eliminate the redundancy of having both 13 and 15 running on 
>California Avenue.

In the 1950s it was a 6/15 owl car (or at least off-peak).  It was changed 
to 6/13 circa 1960, and then 6/14 after route truncated to Avalon Loop in 
early 1960s.


>I don't have a PAT map handy, but might 5th and Craig be a Craft
Avenue barn or a Duquesne Gardens sign?
>


5th & Craig was near where the Stadium-Forbes Field cars were stored until 
after a ball game.  There was double track in an 'alley' or private street 
between Neville and Craig.  In 'my day', it was a high rise apartment, but 
was formerly the Duquesne Gardens (how many remember the Pittsburgh Hornets 
hockey team??) and originally the car barn for one of the independents.

Craft Ave. barn was at the other end of Oakland.  Halket St. was the time 
point (access track between Forbes and Fifth) for Craft Ave.  Hmmmmm. Halket 
St. time point may apply to Fifth Ave. cars only.

I don't recall ever seeing a 54 FIFTH and CRAIG ONLY destination sign.  
Perhaps that goes back to low-floor days.  In the early 1960s, the employee 
schedules for STADIUM-FORBES FIELD cars were identified as route 79 SHADY.


>I would be very suspicious of anything on any car used for a fantrip 
>because railfan created signs were often left behind after the trips, 
>allowing at least one member of this list to run cars signed for Gotham 
>City via Bat Cave in revenue service.  Remember that 5432 was the last 
>active low floor (as the traffic paint car), and it was used for at least 
>one fantrip.
>
>How come no one has asked why the only surviving  car with a number 
>descending of single digits was chosen for the traffic paint car....


It wasn't a choice of 1 out of a thousand; 5432 was selected from the ten 
remaining low floor cars still on the property after the Homewood fire.  
Check 'Headlights'.  After all, it was being put together in Pittsburgh at 
that time.

And yes, your right, Fred, about being very suspicious of some of the signs 
that appeared on fantrip cars.  It seemed that just about every fantrip in 
early 1960s involved a switch of the front destination sign as initial 
preparation.  Which means that just about every photo that everyone has of a 
Pittsburgh Rys. fantrip car from early 1960s features a front destination 
sign from someone's private collection.

John S.




>There would have beenonly two other such cars four digit numbers: 4321, and 
>3210.  Hmm ... if SPTC ever gets to the single door Jones car, I think I 
>might by that one in maroon paint.  Maybe I could also buy a PCC numbered 
>1234.
>
>Macmarka at cs.com wrote:
>
> >   Yet another variation would be 19-Western-Woods Run. Just ran across 
>another photo showing car 5432 at Ingram CH sporting the sign 54-Fifth and 
>Craig St. Only. And I know I'm a little behind all you seasoned veterans, 
>but I was totally unaware of the combined  44/48 Knoxville-Arlington until 
>I saw one of your photos John.  It would be interesting to see such a list 
>if one were available.                        Mark Mc  (my tab key just 
>decided to
> > quit on me)


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