[PRCo] Re: Drake Loop

Sat Apr 14 11:14:09 EDT 2007

When the Drake Loop opened, was there an imediate closer of the line to Washington, or did they
have a Drake Looop car and a Washington interurban car until the Washington operation ceased?

Always wanted to learn

Jerry M
> 
> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> Date: 2007/04/14 Sat AM 09:43:13 EST
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
> 
> THIS IS INCREDIBLE!   A TROLLEY WEB SITE HAS SO CHANGED AND I FIND IT  
> SO INTERESTING!
> 
> On Apr 14, 2007, at 8:39 AM, John Swindler wrote:
> 
> >
> > They didn't build the pyramids.  That was a somewhat local job  
> > approx. 1500
> > years earlier.  And rather amazing mobilization of labor and  
> > material - and
> > civil engineering.
> >
> >> From: aprochek at aol.com
> >> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
> >> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:26:53 -0400
> >>
> >> sounds good to me.  I always thought it was because after building  
> >> the
> >> pyramids and getting paid peanuts (literally) for it, they said  
> >> the hell
> >> with this and found better lines of work.....
> >>
> >>  -Alex
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> Sent: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:27 AM
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
> >>
> >> If your interest in our national culture and our people, be they
> >> Spanish or German or Black or Presbyterian or Anglican or Muslim or
> >> whatever is as intriguing and interesting to you as it is to me, then
> >> the following might be worth reading.
> >>
> >> Rich replied directly to me and suggested I make the decision whether
> >> or not to put this on line.  I found his answer interesting ... it's
> >> totally unrelated to trolleys but it does relate to the settlement or
> >> population of our cities and our history and I can make a case, I
> >> guess, for posting it.   Remotely at least it talks about the people
> >> who rode the trolleys.   His story about why he feels Jewish families
> >> went into merchandising (community support mechanisms, a tradition of
> >> finding the right unfilled niche, education above all else, and a
> >> desire to own property because many came from countries where they
> >> were forbidden to own land) makes interesting reading.   It also
> >> reminds me of other groups ... Mormons, Chinese, Indians who have
> >> also been very successful employing the same techniques.   Ambition
> >> is an amazing thing ... those who have it succeed, those who don't
> >> fail and some times groups of people seem to have adapted better than
> >> other groups.   Bully for them.
> >>
> >> So pasted it is Rich's explanation:
> >>
> >> "in part because of a tradition of commerce and professions. In part
> >> because many came to US from areas where they could not own land and
> >> therefore farming/agriculture were not options. Also, many were in
> >> marketable trades. My father's family were tailors, clothing
> >> merchants, and engravers. The culture placed a high value on skills
> >> and commerce. They came here and bought into "the dream". Unlike
> >> Irish or Italian immigrants, they didn't get into factory or
> >> construction work-not sure why-maybe because the Irish and Italians
> >> already had those jobs. Anaexception was women like my grandmother
> >> and her sisters who worked in the garment industry and its factories.
> >> My grandmother's sister witnessed the Triangle Shirt Factory fire and
> >> subsequently became a militant labor organizer.Further, Jewish
> >> culture was very get ahead oriented-if not for us then for our
> >> children. Doing whatever was necessary to be sure their kids could be
> >> educated and succeed was critical, Most had been artisans in the
> >> parts of Eastern Europe from which they came. I didn't distribute to
> >> the entire list, thinking maybe this interested only us two, but you
> >> may distribute.
> >>
> >> "Oh, and another reason. There was a very well developed network for
> >> immigrant support in the Jewish Community with a strong ethos of
> >> helping one another-connecting to investors, sources of loan,
> >> business and word of mouth. the Jewish immigrant community cared for
> >> itself. My grandmother, not a woman of great means, was still the
> >> longtime treasurer of HIAS (Hebrew Immigrant Assistance Society ) in
> >> Boston. It really provided a network for newcomers to get
> >> established, including finding potential marriagable spouses and
> >> financial assistance. Helping out one another, especially after
> >> coming from areas with such habitual oppression, was second nature."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 12, 2007, at 11:01 PM, Fred Schneider wrote:
> >>
> >>> And so why ... and you can discuss personally if you want or  
> >>> leave it
> >>> on list if you think the others are interested (we'll find out), do
> >>> you feel that so many people of Jewish ancestry / heritage went into
> >>> the mercantile business?
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 12, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Richard Allman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Philadelphia had a mix of ethnicity in its department store
> >>>> proprietors.
> >>>> Gimbels, Frank and Sedar, Snellenbergs', Lit Brothers owned by  
> >>>> Jewish
> >>>> families. John Wanamaker was a Presbyterian merchant and
> >>>> philanthropist-very
> >>>> interested in the Sunday School movement. He was also the
> >>>> Postmaster General
> >>>> in the administration of President Benjamin Harrison, another
> >>>> Presbyterian.
> >>>> Strawbridge and Clothier old Philadelphia Quaker families.My home
> >>>> sits on a
> >>>> small fragment of the old Clothier estate.Some were heroic
> >>>> enterprises,
> >>>> arising from pushcarts.Sadly, all of the families have vanished
> >>>> from the
> >>>> local scene.
> >>>> RICH: no prejudice. Presbyterian Elder and son of Jewish father!
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 12:50 PM
> >>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> PLEASE GENTLEMAN ... BEFORE YOU READ THIS ... SOME THINGS IN HERE
> >>>>> MAY
> >>>>> SMELL OF A PREJUDICE.   I am only commenting on fact.   There  
> >>>>> is no
> >>>>> prejudice involved in any way nor do I want there to be.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They made money and they had prestiege.    Most were probably  
> >>>>> owned
> >>>>> by local families or partnerships of local families.   I suspect
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> many of them were people willing, at least for the first 20 or  
> >>>>> more
> >>>>> years, to work 60 to 80 hours a week.   Probably a fairly large
> >>>>> number were Jewish.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here in Lancaster we had five major department stores when I moved
> >>>>> here in 1949.   Hagers was owned by John C. Hager III at that  
> >>>>> time.
> >>>>> He lived in a rather secluded home in the woods on the hill behind
> >>>>> me.   It would be more correct to say he owned one end of the
> >>>>> hill.    Watt and Shands Department Store was the upper end.    
> >>>>> Peter
> >>>>> Watt got out fairly early.   He owned a huge ornate Victorian
> >>>>> mansion
> >>>>> in the west end of town which still stands at Marietta and  
> >>>>> President
> >>>>> Avenues with his name on the entrance pillars.  I'm not sure how
> >>>>> wealthy the Shands were.   Milton T. Garvin owned the lower end
> >>>>> department store ... he was a Unitarian Universalist and rather
> >>>>> conservative.   The other two department stores were chains ...
> >>>>> J. C.
> >>>>> Penny and Sears Roebuck and Company.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And there was one other local guy who built his very first store
> >>>>> here
> >>>>> and then moved on to bigger and better things. His name was  
> >>>>> Frank W.
> >>>>> Woolworth.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Derrick ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You should stop by the library at the Baltimore Streetcar Museum
> >>>>> on a
> >>>>> Wednesday when the guys are working in the library and look for  
> >>>>> Dick
> >>>>> Hutzler.   His family owned Hutzler's Department Store on Howard
> >>>>> Street in downtown Baltimore.  My mother spent a fortune there on
> >>>>> Saturdays in the 1950s and 1960s.   It was probably typical ...
> >>>>> Jewish family as were most of the stores in Baltimore according to
> >>>>> Dick.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think the money was there in retailing as long as the public
> >>>>> wanted
> >>>>> and was willing to pay for service.   Once they accepted the  
> >>>>> slob in
> >>>>> the box concept of marketing, then all the purveyor of merchandise
> >>>>> could do is cut his margin and increase the number of stores in
> >>>>> order
> >>>>> to make a living.   The family could no longer aspire to have a
> >>>>> single store and live well off of it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Apr 11, 2007, at 6:44 PM, Derrick J Brashear wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The Boggs mansion is a few blocks from Federal on North. It's a
> >>>>>> bed&breakfast now. I was in the bar there one night a month or so
> >>>>>> ago
> >>>>>> after a play nearby and had a hand in stopping a fire on their
> >>>>>> porch. In
> >>>>>> any case, the mansion's pretty nice. I guess being a department
> >>>>>> store
> >>>>>> maven meant something then
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> _____________________________________________________________________ 
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> >>
> >
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> 
> 