[PRCo] Re: Drake Loop

Sat Apr 14 11:47:04 EDT 2007

A wye was constructed near Walther stop early in 1953 and placed in service
April 20 for newly-scheduled short-turn cars.  Drake Loop was not complete
when the outer portion of the line was abandoned, so all cars used the wye
from August 30 to the afternoon of September 25, when the loop opened.

-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of
mtoytrain at bellsouth.net
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 11:14 AM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Drake Loop

When the Drake Loop opened, was there an imediate closer of the line to
Washington, or did they
have a Drake Looop car and a Washington interurban car until the Washington
operation ceased?

Always wanted to learn

Jerry M
>
> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> Date: 2007/04/14 Sat AM 09:43:13 EST
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
>
> THIS IS INCREDIBLE!   A TROLLEY WEB SITE HAS SO CHANGED AND I FIND IT
> SO INTERESTING!
>
> On Apr 14, 2007, at 8:39 AM, John Swindler wrote:
>
> >
> > They didn't build the pyramids.  That was a somewhat local job
> > approx. 1500
> > years earlier.  And rather amazing mobilization of labor and
> > material - and
> > civil engineering.
> >
> >> From: aprochek at aol.com
> >> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
> >> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:26:53 -0400
> >>
> >> sounds good to me.  I always thought it was because after building
> >> the
> >> pyramids and getting paid peanuts (literally) for it, they said
> >> the hell
> >> with this and found better lines of work.....
> >>
> >>  -Alex
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> Sent: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:27 AM
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
> >>
> >> If your interest in our national culture and our people, be they
> >> Spanish or German or Black or Presbyterian or Anglican or Muslim or
> >> whatever is as intriguing and interesting to you as it is to me, then
> >> the following might be worth reading.
> >>
> >> Rich replied directly to me and suggested I make the decision whether
> >> or not to put this on line.  I found his answer interesting ... it's
> >> totally unrelated to trolleys but it does relate to the settlement or
> >> population of our cities and our history and I can make a case, I
> >> guess, for posting it.   Remotely at least it talks about the people
> >> who rode the trolleys.   His story about why he feels Jewish families
> >> went into merchandising (community support mechanisms, a tradition of
> >> finding the right unfilled niche, education above all else, and a
> >> desire to own property because many came from countries where they
> >> were forbidden to own land) makes interesting reading.   It also
> >> reminds me of other groups ... Mormons, Chinese, Indians who have
> >> also been very successful employing the same techniques.   Ambition
> >> is an amazing thing ... those who have it succeed, those who don't
> >> fail and some times groups of people seem to have adapted better than
> >> other groups.   Bully for them.
> >>
> >> So pasted it is Rich's explanation:
> >>
> >> "in part because of a tradition of commerce and professions. In part
> >> because many came to US from areas where they could not own land and
> >> therefore farming/agriculture were not options. Also, many were in
> >> marketable trades. My father's family were tailors, clothing
> >> merchants, and engravers. The culture placed a high value on skills
> >> and commerce. They came here and bought into "the dream". Unlike
> >> Irish or Italian immigrants, they didn't get into factory or
> >> construction work-not sure why-maybe because the Irish and Italians
> >> already had those jobs. Anaexception was women like my grandmother
> >> and her sisters who worked in the garment industry and its factories.
> >> My grandmother's sister witnessed the Triangle Shirt Factory fire and
> >> subsequently became a militant labor organizer.Further, Jewish
> >> culture was very get ahead oriented-if not for us then for our
> >> children. Doing whatever was necessary to be sure their kids could be
> >> educated and succeed was critical, Most had been artisans in the
> >> parts of Eastern Europe from which they came. I didn't distribute to
> >> the entire list, thinking maybe this interested only us two, but you
> >> may distribute.
> >>
> >> "Oh, and another reason. There was a very well developed network for
> >> immigrant support in the Jewish Community with a strong ethos of
> >> helping one another-connecting to investors, sources of loan,
> >> business and word of mouth. the Jewish immigrant community cared for
> >> itself. My grandmother, not a woman of great means, was still the
> >> longtime treasurer of HIAS (Hebrew Immigrant Assistance Society ) in
> >> Boston. It really provided a network for newcomers to get
> >> established, including finding potential marriagable spouses and
> >> financial assistance. Helping out one another, especially after
> >> coming from areas with such habitual oppression, was second nature."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 12, 2007, at 11:01 PM, Fred Schneider wrote:
> >>
> >>> And so why ... and you can discuss personally if you want or
> >>> leave it
> >>> on list if you think the others are interested (we'll find out), do
> >>> you feel that so many people of Jewish ancestry / heritage went into
> >>> the mercantile business?
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 12, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Richard Allman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Philadelphia had a mix of ethnicity in its department store
> >>>> proprietors.
> >>>> Gimbels, Frank and Sedar, Snellenbergs', Lit Brothers owned by
> >>>> Jewish
> >>>> families. John Wanamaker was a Presbyterian merchant and
> >>>> philanthropist-very
> >>>> interested in the Sunday School movement. He was also the
> >>>> Postmaster General
> >>>> in the administration of President Benjamin Harrison, another
> >>>> Presbyterian.
> >>>> Strawbridge and Clothier old Philadelphia Quaker families.My home
> >>>> sits on a
> >>>> small fragment of the old Clothier estate.Some were heroic
> >>>> enterprises,
> >>>> arising from pushcarts.Sadly, all of the families have vanished
> >>>> from the
> >>>> local scene.
> >>>> RICH: no prejudice. Presbyterian Elder and son of Jewish father!
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 12:50 PM
> >>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> PLEASE GENTLEMAN ... BEFORE YOU READ THIS ... SOME THINGS IN HERE
> >>>>> MAY
> >>>>> SMELL OF A PREJUDICE.   I am only commenting on fact.   There
> >>>>> is no
> >>>>> prejudice involved in any way nor do I want there to be.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They made money and they had prestiege.    Most were probably
> >>>>> owned
> >>>>> by local families or partnerships of local families.   I suspect
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> many of them were people willing, at least for the first 20 or
> >>>>> more
> >>>>> years, to work 60 to 80 hours a week.   Probably a fairly large
> >>>>> number were Jewish.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here in Lancaster we had five major department stores when I moved
> >>>>> here in 1949.   Hagers was owned by John C. Hager III at that
> >>>>> time.
> >>>>> He lived in a rather secluded home in the woods on the hill behind
> >>>>> me.   It would be more correct to say he owned one end of the
> >>>>> hill.    Watt and Shands Department Store was the upper end.
> >>>>> Peter
> >>>>> Watt got out fairly early.   He owned a huge ornate Victorian
> >>>>> mansion
> >>>>> in the west end of town which still stands at Marietta and
> >>>>> President
> >>>>> Avenues with his name on the entrance pillars.  I'm not sure how
> >>>>> wealthy the Shands were.   Milton T. Garvin owned the lower end
> >>>>> department store ... he was a Unitarian Universalist and rather
> >>>>> conservative.   The other two department stores were chains ...
> >>>>> J. C.
> >>>>> Penny and Sears Roebuck and Company.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And there was one other local guy who built his very first store
> >>>>> here
> >>>>> and then moved on to bigger and better things. His name was
> >>>>> Frank W.
> >>>>> Woolworth.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Derrick ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You should stop by the library at the Baltimore Streetcar Museum
> >>>>> on a
> >>>>> Wednesday when the guys are working in the library and look for
> >>>>> Dick
> >>>>> Hutzler.   His family owned Hutzler's Department Store on Howard
> >>>>> Street in downtown Baltimore.  My mother spent a fortune there on
> >>>>> Saturdays in the 1950s and 1960s.   It was probably typical ...
> >>>>> Jewish family as were most of the stores in Baltimore according to
> >>>>> Dick.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think the money was there in retailing as long as the public
> >>>>> wanted
> >>>>> and was willing to pay for service.   Once they accepted the
> >>>>> slob in
> >>>>> the box concept of marketing, then all the purveyor of merchandise
> >>>>> could do is cut his margin and increase the number of stores in
> >>>>> order
> >>>>> to make a living.   The family could no longer aspire to have a
> >>>>> single store and live well off of it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Apr 11, 2007, at 6:44 PM, Derrick J Brashear wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The Boggs mansion is a few blocks from Federal on North. It's a
> >>>>>> bed&breakfast now. I was in the bar there one night a month or so
> >>>>>> ago
> >>>>>> after a play nearby and had a hand in stopping a fire on their
> >>>>>> porch. In
> >>>>>> any case, the mansion's pretty nice. I guess being a department
> >>>>>> store
> >>>>>> maven meant something then
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> _____________________________________________________________________
> >> ___
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
>
>
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