[PRCo] Re: PCCs in Operation

[Boris Cefer]

No MUNI renumbering.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:53 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: PCCs in Operation


> 1017. 1015 and 1010 are unrenumbered Torpedos?   Were any of the Muni  
> cars renumbered and were all the Inepta or Septic system cars added  
> in above 1040?
> On Jan 17, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Jim Holland wrote:
> 
> > GPS  announces stops  --  probably much else it can do that we  
> > aren't told!!
> > .
> > 1040 is the last SF-Muni Ten  --  Tens above that are either Septic  
> > or NJ.
> >
> >
> > Fred Schneider wrote:
> >
> >> GPS so that the motorman can't take it home to lunch?   <BG>   Is
> >> this a new dispatching system so the car's whereabouts are known
> >> constantly?
> >>
> >> Which of the cars came from INEPTA and which came from MUNI?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 16, 2007, at 5:55 PM, Jim Holland wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Included is a listing of  ALL  Historical SF-Muni TrolleyCars As of
> >>> 2005.06.06  --  1.5 years ago  --  will be difficult to find more
> >>> recent
> >>> listing.       This is from Peter Ehrlich who used to be a member
> >>> of the
> >>> Pittsburgh list.       SF  has  4008  and  4009
> >>>
> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi, gang!
> >>>
> >>> Here is the status of F-Line equipment, as of June 5, 2005. Cars
> >>> listed
> >>> as "out of service" are requiring repairs lasting longer than 5
> >>> work days.
> >>>
> >>> All active PCCs and Milan cars except 1807 now have GPS installed.
> >>>
> >>> Changes since last report: 1007; 1010; 1015; 1051; 1060; 1807; 1814;
> >>> 1818; 1; 228; 496; 1080 (ex-Newark 9); 1071 (ex-Newark 23); 1072
> >>> (ex-Newark 20); 1073 (ex-Newark 22)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Milantram
> >>>
> >>> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> PCCs
> >>>
> >>> 1007 Philadelphia Suburban In service (change since last report)
> >>>
> >>> 1010 Muni Blue/Gold Out of service in May 2005 for motor change
> >>> (change
> >>> since last report)
> >>>
> >>> 1015 Illinois Terminal Out of service Jan 2005; roof rebuilt;
> >>> controller
> >>> problems (change since last report)
> >>>
> >>> 1050 Muni Wings In service
> >>>
> >>> 1051 Muni Simplified Out of service 30 May 2005; roof rebuilding
> >>> (change
> >>> since last report)
> >>>
> >>> 1052 Los Angeles Railway In service
> >>>
> >>> 1053 Brooklyn In service
> >>>
> >>> 1054 Philadelphia Silver Wrecked 11/16/03; moved to Marin Division
> >>> 2 Mar
> >>> 05 pending retirement
> >>>
> >>> 1055 Philadelphia Green In service
> >>>
> >>> 1056 Kansas City Wrecked 8/25/01; moved into Geneva Body Shop late
> >>> January 2004
> >>>
> >>> 1057 Cincinnati In service
> >>>
> >>> 1058 Chicago In service
> >>>
> >>> 1059 Boston In service
> >>>
> >>> 1060 Philadelphia Silver Returned to service 26 May 2005 (change  
> >>> since
> >>> last report)
> >>>
> >>> 1061 Pacific Electric In service
> >>>
> >>> 1062 Louisville In service
> >>>
> >>> 1063 Baltimore In service
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Milan cars
> >>>
> >>> 1807 Milan (ex-1507) Out of service 2 June 2005; gearbox problems
> >>> (change since last report)
> >>>
> >>> 1811 Milan (ex-1911) In service; painted Milan 1928 yellow/white  
> >>> 1814
> >>> Milan In service March 2005 (change since last report)
> >>>
> >>> 1815 Milan (ex-1515) In service
> >>>
> >>> 1818 Milan Out of service May 2005; motor problems (change since  
> >>> last
> >>> report)
> >>>
> >>> 1834 Milan Training service only
> >>>
> >>> 1856 Milan (ex-1556) In service
> >>>
> >>> 1859 Milan In service
> >>>
> >>> 1888 Milan (ex-1588) Wrecked 12/11/03
> >>>
> >>> 1893 Milan (ex-1793) In service
> >>>
> >>> 1895 Milan (ex-1795) In service
> >>>
> >>> 1979 Milan Out of service (parts car). Body at Pier 72. Front end
> >>> to be
> >>> used for rebuild of 1888
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Vintage cars
> >>>
> >>> 1 Muni A-Type Returned to service May 2005 (change since last  
> >>> report)
> >>>
> >>> 106 Moscow/Orel Undergoing restoration at Mint Yard by MSR
> >>>
> >>> 130 Muni B-Type In service
> >>>
> >>> 151 Hankai/Osaka Stored serviceable at Pier 80; on list of first  
> >>> group
> >>> of cars to next be rebuilt for service
> >>>
> >>> 162 Muni B-Type Moved to Geneva Shops September 12, 2004; in Muni
> >>> Electronics shop for continued restoration work and LVPS  
> >>> installation
> >>>
> >>> 189 Oporto Restoration stopped; body moved inside Marin Division;
> >>> truck
> >>> moved to Pier 80
> >>>
> >>> 228 Blackpool "Boat" In engineering for brake tests (change since  
> >>> last
> >>> report)
> >>>
> >>> 351 Johnstown Stored unserviceable at Mint Yard; on list of first or
> >>> second group of cars to next be rebuilt for service
> >>>
> >>> 496 Melbourne W2 Returned to service 4 June 2005 (change since last
> >>> report)
> >>>
> >>> 578J Kobe/Hiroshima To be transported to Seattle in 2005 for hand
> >>> brake
> >>> installation and other work; not yet departed property
> >>>
> >>> 578S Market Street Ry Held out of service (ADA issues)
> >>>
> >>> 586 Melbourne W2 Stored unserviceable at Pier 80; status uncertain
> >>>
> >>> 737 Brussels (PCC) Repainted as a Zurich car and displayed 4 June
> >>> 2005;
> >>> still undergoing electrical/mechanical restoration (change since  
> >>> last
> >>> report)
> >>>
> >>> 798 Market Street Ry Undergoing restoration at Mint Yard by MSR
> >>>
> >>> 952 New Orleans In service
> >>>
> >>> 3557 Hamburg Stored unserviceable at Marin Division; on list of
> >>> first or
> >>> second group of cars to next be rebuilt for service
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ex-Newark, NJ PCCs purchased July 2004. All except 14 sent to
> >>> Brookville
> >>> Equipment Company for rehab. Muni fleet numbers to be 1070-1080.
> >>>
> >>> 2 Newark At Brookville Equipment for rehab
> >>>
> >>> 11 Newark At Brookville Equipment for rehab
> >>>
> >>> 12 Newark At Brookville Equipment for rehab
> >>>
> >>> 14 Newark At Muni Geneva Yard. To be forwarded to Brookville  
> >>> Equipment
> >>> for rehab later in 2005
> >>>
> >>> 17 Newark At Brookville Equipment for rehab
> >>>
> >>> 19 Newark At Brookville Equipment for rehab
> >>>
> >>> 21 Newark At Brookville Equipment for rehab
> >>>
> >>> 1071 Twin City Rapid Transit At Brookville Equipment for rehab;
> >>> ex-Newark 23 (change since last report)
> >>>
> >>> 1072 Mexico City At Brookville Equipment for rehab; ex-Newark 20
> >>> (change
> >>> since last report)
> >>>
> >>> 1073 El Paso At Brookville Equipment for rehab; ex-Newark 22 (change
> >>> since last report)
> >>>
> >>> 1080 Los Ang. Transit Lines Delivered to Muni 11 May 2005;  
> >>> undergoing
> >>> testing/preparation for service; ex-Newark 9 (change since last
> >>> report)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Stockpiled PCCs
> >>>
> >>> 1006 "Torpedo" Stored unserviceable at Marin Division; on list of
> >>> first
> >>> group of cars to next be rebuilt for service
> >>>
> >>> 1008 "Torpedo" work car Operable; at Geneva Yard; on list of first
> >>> group
> >>> of cars to next be rebuilt for service
> >>>
> >>> 1009 "Torpedo" Stored unserviceable at Pier 72; on list of first  
> >>> group
> >>> of cars to next be rebuilt for service
> >>>
> >>> 1011 "Torpedo" Stored unserviceable at Pier 72; on list of first  
> >>> group
> >>> of cars to next be rebuilt for service
> >>>
> >>> 1023 "Baby Ten" Stored unserviceable at Pier 72
> >>>
> >>> 1026 "Baby Ten" Stored unserviceable at Marin Division
> >>>
> >>> 1027 "Baby Ten" Stored unserviceable at Marin Division
> >>>
> >>> 1028 "Baby Ten" Stored unserviceable at Marin Division
> >>>
> >>> 1031 "Baby Ten" Stored unserviceable at Pier 72
> >>>
> >>> 1033 "Baby Ten" Stored unserviceable at Marin Division; on list of
> >>> first
> >>> group of cars to next be rebuilt for service
> >>>
> >>> 1034 "Baby Ten" Stored unserviceable at Marin Division; on list of
> >>> first
> >>> group of cars to next be rebuilt for service
> >>>
> >>> 1038 "Baby Ten" Stored unserviceable at Pier 72
> >>>
> >>> 1039 "Baby Ten" Stored unserviceable at Marin Division; on list of
> >>> first
> >>> group of cars to next be rebuilt for service
> >>>
> >>> 1040 "Baby Ten" Stored serviceable at Geneva Yard; on list of first
> >>> group of cars to next be rebuilt for service
> >>>
> >>> 1064 ex-Phila. 2133 Out of service; moved to Marin Division
> >>>
> >>> 1103 Ex-St. Louis "1100" Stored unserviceable at Pier 72
> >>>
> >>> 1106 Ex-St. Louis "1100" Stored unserviceable at Marin Division
> >>>
> >>> 1108 Ex-St. Louis "1100" Stored unserviceable at Marin Division
> >>>
> >>> 1115 Ex-St. Louis "1100" Stored unserviceable at Pier 72
> >>>
> >>> 1125 Ex-St. Louis "1100" Stored unserviceable at Pier 72
> >>>
> >>> 1130 Ex-St. Louis "1100" Stored unserviceable at Pier 72
> >>>
> >>> 1139 Ex-St. Louis "1100" Stored unserviceable at Pier 72
> >>>
> >>> 1140 Ex-St. Louis "1100" Stored unserviceable at Marin Division
> >>>
> >>> 1146 Ex-St. Louis "1100" Being moved to Muni from Clear Lake, IA
> >>>
> >>> 1158 Ex-St. Louis "1100" Stored unserviceable at Pier 72
> >>>
> >>> 1160 Ex-St. Louis "1100" Stored unserviceable at Marin Division
> >>>
> >>> 1168 Ex-St. Louis "1100" Stored unserviceable at Pier 72
> >>>
> >>> 1704 St. Louis Out of service but operable; moved to Marin Division
> >>> March 30, 2004
> >>>
> >>> 2147 Ex-SEPTA PCC Stored unserviceable at Pier 72
> >>>
> >>> 4008 Pittsburgh Stored unserviceable at Marin Yard
> >>>
> >>> 4009 Pittsburgh Stored unserviceable at Marin Yard
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Fred Schneider wrote:
> >>> .
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> The Boston cars are not running at this moment because the  
> >>>> Mattapan -
> >>>> Ashmont line is temporarily out of service while the Ashmont subway
> >>>> station is rebuilt. Those cars are, as Russ Jackson is his own
> >>>> whimsical manner described them, PCC version D for degraded. The
> >>>> field
> >>>> shunts have been removed from the acceleration mode therefore they
> >>>> will run no faster than 25 mph and therefore they do not meet PCC
> >>>> specifications.
> >>>>
> >>>> Kenosha has five cars from Toronto, as Ken wrote, and I don't think
> >>>> that they have been mechanically altered in any way that would  
> >>>> change
> >>>> the performance specification.
> >>>>
> >>>> Toronto has one or two in charter service but not in normal  
> >>>> scheduled
> >>>> service.
> >>>>
> >>>> Philadelphia had a group of cars that from outward appearances look
> >>>> like a PCC but have nothing on them, to the best of my knowledge,
> >>>> that
> >>>> was manufactured according to PCC patents. The trucks are  
> >>>> totally new
> >>>> and are identical to those on the New Orleans red cars.      The
> >>>> control package is also totally new and electronic, not a  
> >>>> resistance
> >>>> control scheme. I would be hard pressed to call them PCC cars.  
> >>>> There
> >>>> may still be some PCC cars in storage that have not been sold  
> >>>> off or
> >>>> rebuilt by SEPTA.
> >>>>
> >>>> New Jersey Transit still has a small fleet of cars in storage for
> >>>> future use, I think in Bayonne.
> >>>>
> >>>> And Holland would have to fill in the details on the San Francisco
> >>>> fleet. I know there is one Pittsburgh 4000 out there. There are  
> >>>> many
> >>>> of the rebuilt SEPTA cars that had gone first through the 1981
> >>>> General
> >>>> Overhaul Program, which removed the field shunting in acceleration
> >>>> and
> >>>> also screwed up the braking response. Like the Boston cars, they  
> >>>> too
> >>>> no longer meet TRC / PCC specifications but you would have a hard
> >>>> time
> >>>> explaining to a non technical mind that they are not true PCCs. I
> >>>> think there are also a few of the original Muni Torpedos still
> >>>> running, and they probably are as close to original as you get  
> >>>> today
> >>>> for a car that is approaching 50 years old.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: <mtoytrain at bellsouth.net>
> >>>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:44 AM
> >>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: PCCs in Operation
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Knowing Philadelphia has refurbished PCCs running are there any
> >>>>>> other US Cities running PCCs cars at this time??. I thought  
> >>>>>> Boston
> >>>>>> was, but was told differently.       Also a number of cities,
> >>>>>> Tampa,
> >>>>>> Charlotte Memphis and others have opened new lines what type of
> >>>>>> cars
> >>>>>> are they running? New or refurbished?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Also being a member of PTM, is there any plans to extend the
> >>>>>> trackage or right of way or is the basic track layout going to be
> >>>>>> maintained:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jerry Matsick
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
>