[PRCo] Re: New York Times Streetcar Article

[John Swindler]

I'll always remember a skit from early days of Saturday night live:  "America is going condo".  You have to pay to stay.
 
Fortunately, for many, it was only a tv skit.
 
John
 
> From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: New York Times Streetcar Article> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:37:19 -0400> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > YOU SUMMED IT UP JOHN.> > NOW HOW DOES SOCIETY SOLVE THE PROBLEM?> > Transit is just one corner of the problem. Educating people for the > future is an even bigger issue. Getting people to live with each > other is also a big issue and one that we have been attempting to > address for the last half century and then some. But it all has to > come together. I've got tons of questions but seldom the answers. I > think I have the same questions you do.> > > On Aug 20, 2008, at 4:04 PM, John Swindler wrote:> > >> >> > We both moved away. So did much of Pittsburgh (to make a feeble > > attempt to get back to list topic) In Harrisburg there are > > extremely stark contrasts between the the 322, 8 and 13 bus routes, > > both riders and territory served. Like three different worlds. > > Maybe a lot of Harrisburg was "grizzly" in the 1970s, but I notice > > it more, now. Yes, was thinking of the Polyclinic/Italian Lake > > area as one that has remained fairly stable. But don't wander too > > many blocks to the east.> >> > As for retraining, not even so much the older workers, but the > > frustrating thing is the drop out rate at many urban high schools. > > Kids don't get it - or can't be bothered. Or whatever. To > > paraphase others, you only go around once, and these kids are > > throwing their lives away. I know that we can both relate to that, > > and suspect most others on this list can too. And yes, that does > > have a negative impact on transit.> >> > The other extreme would be the experience of a foreign exchange > > student that would be an embarrassment to 99% of us, myself > > included. She made the US secondary education system look so > > easy. And that is what is so sad about parts of the younger > > generation. I guess my generation too.> >> > My advice to Jimmy was to get the high school degree and go onto > > more education, if he wanted to be able to do the things he liked. > > (do you want to flip hamburgers or be able to go scuba diving???) > > Perhaps it helped to point out the lifestyle of others who chose > > not to go forward. Because they seemed to be an interest, I > > suggested medical or computers. But it didn't matter much, as long > > as it was something, preferably that he liked. He opted for > > medical. At least if/when I have bypass surgery, I hope he will > > remember to wake me up afterwards. (:>)> >> > I suspect we are both skirting different sides of the same issue - > > future of society and its impact on transit. Maybe more the former > > then the latter. Maybe we can beg forgiveness from Derrick by > > suggesting that the transit of the street railway era is a > > completely different world from today. And transit today must > > serve a very different market that is in the process of yet > > changing again.> >> > John> >> >> >> From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: New York Times > >> Streetcar Article> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:09:34 -0400> To: > >> pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > Pardon the expansion on the > >> subject....> > No, John, but Fred drives through much of > >> Harrisburg. You do not > have to ride the 8 and 13 buses to know > >> what Derry St. and Paxton St. > and those neighborhoods look like. > >> I got through them > frequently. And no, I have not walked up to > >> the Broad Street > Market this month. But I drove up to the > >> Polyclinic Hospital last > month to visit a friend. Does that > >> count?> > Unfortunately, no one has good answers to solve urban > >> problems. We > simply continue to try to move away from them. Part > >> of it is jobs.> > It all goes back to that old argument about > >> training old workers for > new jobs. You cannot train people to > >> ditches with a pick and spade > today and expect them to find > >> work. They need to adapt to > contemporary jobs or roll over and > >> play dead. I just punched > "demand!> > occupations" into Google. Twenty or thirty years ago that > used > > to pull up a long list of clerical and factory jobs that were > > > hard to fill. Today the top 50 demand occupations nationwide appear > > > to be largely college based. Only three of them required mostly > > > high school diplomas or less ... restaurant managers, electricians, > > > plumbers. I would have trouble believing that a good electrician > > or > plumber has only received a high school diploma and not a lot > > of > corporate sponsored training too. The other 47 occupations > > largely > required junior college or four-year degrees or even > > higher. No > offense meant, but the era of sleeping on the night > > shift at > Homestead Works of U. S. Steel is over. Long Gone.> > > > Data that is as good as any is probably in the U. S. Occupational > > > Outlook Handbook. The flaw with such information is that it can > > > only be based on what has happened. We always expect to be told > > > what will happen as if someone in the gov'm't had a big crystal!> >> ball. Frankly, if you ask a business corporation what their plans >> > are for the future, the manager either doesn't know or he sure as > > > hell isn't going to let the cat out of the bag and tell you so > > his > competitors might find out. So all you can do is look at what > > has > happened and try to make adjustments based on what you know. > > I got > into some large arguments over state occupational > > projections when > they wanted to greatly increase staff in grocery > > stores in one round > of projections I had been asked to edit. I > > explained that you can't > do what happened in the past because the > > past represented a > conversion from full time help to a lot of > > part-time low-wage > workers. There are no more full-time people to > > replace. So the > number of grocery clerks isn't going to continue > > to rise. So the > next question was, "We've decided we will have > > this many workers, so > if you don't want them as grocery clerks, > > then where do you want > them?" How about more unemployed? We can't > > do that. Isn't > politically proper. But it turned out that is wh!> > at did happen.> > So if you look at the data in the URL below you > > will see that photo > processors will drop drastically in the > > coming years. Yeah. > Right. Where are they going to drop from? For > > example, there is > only one laboratory left in the entire U. S. A. > > and Canada that > processes Kodachrome and that is Dwayne's in > > Parsons, Kansas. I > think they also have the European market now. > > But because we lost > thousands of photo lab technicians due to the > > digital revolution over > the last survey period, it has to happen > > again. Then the data will > be revised after Washington finds out > > there were none left to drop. > So look at the data with a grain of > > salt. At least it is good data > about what just happened in the > > recent past.> > http://www.bls.gov/oco/oco2003.htm> > I guess I'm > > still a strong believer in putting corporate people > instead of > > politicians on school boards; and forcing school people to > listen > > to them instead of to parents and kids about what is relevant!> >> in our lives. I'm still a strong believer in history, geography, >> > English, more than ever in foreign languages, computer skills, math > > > and sciences. There are only so many jobs out there for people > > who > can only flip hamburgers, hold flags at construction sites, > > or stock > store shelves and they do not pay well.> > > > > On Aug > > 20, 2008, at 11:28 AM, John Swindler wrote:> > >> > Hi Rich> >> > > > Fred doesn't ride the rt. 8 nor rt. 13 buses on occasion to see > > > > what is happening to Harrisburg outside the downtown area. Nor > > > > does he have occasion to walk up to the Broad st. Market to see how > > > > that residential area has been cleared. If nothing else, at > > least > > many of the empty houses have been leveled.> >> > The > > downtown area is getting some more construction on Market St > > > > and up by the Keystone Building. But this sort of thing has been > > > > going on every so often since the 1970s, and probably earlier. > > > > State government has provided white collar jobs - its the blue > > > > collar jobs that have evaporated, as Fred notes. The sidew!> > alks > > still get rolled up at 5:15 in Harrisburg. It seems like > > a > > deserted town when I catch the later 5:35 bus.> >> > > > Ascending? It varys, just like so many other US towns.> >> > John> > > >> >> >> >> From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: New > > York Times > >> Streetcar Article> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:37:38 > > -0400> To: > >> pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > Rich,> > I need > > to take you to > >> Passage of India restaurant and introduce you > > > to Lena and Vishnu > >> Shenoy, the owners.> > http:// > > www.passagetoindiapa.com/> > There > >> is also several great > > Italian places downtown.> > Harrisburg was > >> probably at its > > worst in the 1970s and 1980s. It's > star is > >> ascending. The > > worst blow, just like Pittsburgh, was when > > >> Bethlehem Steel > > faltered in Steelton in the 1980s. There is a > > >> replacement > > steel company but it does not employ nearly the number > >> of > > > people that Bethlehem had.> > Please also notice that when I > >> > > am throwing out emp!> > loyment data, I'm > tossing around metropolitan > >> statistical area> > data and not cities. > By definition an MSA is > >> either a city > > of 50,000 people or more or a > city with a > >> prescribed > > population density (that last clause was > inserted in > >> 1990 or > > 2000 when we w!> > ould have lost places like > Harrisburg that > > were shrinking under > > 50,000 and we reduced the core > city to a > > 10,000 to 50,000 range). > > The county surrounding the core > city > > is automatically included. > > Lancaster County, Pennsylvania is > > > automatically included because > > Lancaster City is over 50,000. > > > Philadelphia County is > > automatically included with Philadelphia > > City, > in that case > > because they are co-terminus. Beyond that, > > a requisite > number of > > people from surrounding counties must > > commute into the core > > > county for work to add them to the MSA. > > We have since tweaked the > > > commuting patterns from 15% to 25% > > in recent years. We look first > > > for the largest county with > > 25% and add it. Then we look for the > > > next county tha!> > t has 25% or more of its population commuting to > > work > in the > > first two counties. Then we hunt for a county that > > has 25% > or > > more of its people working in the first three > > counties, and so > > on > until we run out of counties that qualify.> > > > Some states > > pub!> > lish county and city data. Pennsylvania does. But > those > > data or not> > readily available on line so I don't look for it to > > > make > > comparisons with other capitals. So I can only look at > > Albany > or > > Cheyenne or Philadelphia or Richmond as MSAs and > > not as cities. > > > By the same token, I can not easily look at > > Williamsburg, Virginia > > as > a city. I have to look at it as > > part of Norfolk - Newport News > > - > Hampton.> > Is that fair? > > That depends on who you talk to. I > > remember one > character > > from the Chamber of Commerce in Port > > Jervis PA who argued > > > with me that he could not understand why his > > city was included > > in the > Middletown NY MSA / New York City CMSA. > > The lunacy or!> > logic of it > simply escaped his brain. But the fool > > attended > > the> > conferences in > Washington when OMB reclassified Pike > > County > > PA into that area. He > understood. He just believed his > > county > > was more important by > itself. He simply wasn't willing to > > > > admit that 65% of the workers > in his area actually crossed the > > > > Delaware River and went into New > Jersey and New York states to > > work!> > and there was no way you were > going to convince him. If > > you > > want a lot of heavy reading, the link > below goes to the > > Federal > > Register. You can read all about it. But > I don't > > expect anyone to > > do it.> > http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/ > > fedreg/ > > metroareas122700.pdf> > But at least now you know why > > Allegheny, > > Butler, Washington, Beaver, > Fayette and > > Westmoreland counties are > > all part of the Pittsburgh MSA > or > > labor market.> > On Aug 20, > > 2008, at 10:03 AM, Derrick J > > Brashear wrote:> > > On Tue, 19 Aug > > 2008, Richard Allman > > wrote:> >> >> what about our great state > > capital city? Unless > > I'm missing > >> somet!> > hing, it's> >> still a > > dump. A few years ago the Inquirer ran > > an article entitled > >> > > something> >> like "Harrisburg:Is this > > any place to have a state > > capital?" and > >> subtitled> >> "not > > even a nice place to > > visit" (as oppposed to places that are > > > >> nowhere to> >> > > > Harrisburg seems not bad to me; It > > certainly has more ethnic food, > > for> > instance, than other > > larger cit!> > ies I've been to. There are > > recreational> > > > opportunities. The > > big> > thing for me would have been that > > because of > > its> > size, a > > dearth of the sort of touring > > musical acts coming that I'd > > like > > to> > see. But that's an > > issue in Pittsburgh too.> >> > In some > > respects "it depends > > where in the city you are"> >> >> >> > > > _________________________________________________________________> > > > Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways > > to > > share.> > http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/ > > posts? > > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Photo_Gal!> > lery_082008> >> >> > _________________________________________________________________> > See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured > > posts.> > http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008> >> > 
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