[PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh 4322 from Gaterman file 409

[John Swindler]

Hi Dwight
 
This is another instance where I wish I had had the insight to ask a lot more questions of John Baxter while he was still alive, particularly in early 1960s.  He was out next door neighbor during 1950s, and we blame him for my electric railfan interest.
 
In particular, this looks like something used internally within the schedule department.  (wish I'd asked John B. for a complete set of all forms used by PRC schedule department)
 
Concerning your public timetable dtd 9/4/62, does it show 38 as a separate route, or was the outer end already combined with 42?  I should have a circa 1960 schedule downstairs which might show if the 42/38 routing was for getting cars to Tunnel carhouse, or for late evening/night service.  PRC watched their nickels.
 
When W. Liberty Ave. section of route 38 abandoned, the outbound 42 connection to Washington Rd. was changed from single to double track.  Also, I think there was a crossover in W. Liberty inbound of Dormont Wye.  This would allow an outbound 42 car to go inbound on W. Liberty.  
 
Most of my recollection is of the 42/38 operation. route 38 was already gone as a separate entity.   But there is the memory that Beechview operated only to Dormont Wye on Sundays, circa 1960.  During Sunday pass riding, when my 42 car reached end of line around noon, I'd retire to Isaly's across the street from Dormont Wye for a 25 cent chocolate milk shake.
 
According to 1920s track map, in the early years, 42 was single track with passing sidings Neeld Ave. to Dormont Wye (Junction).  There was a passing siding at Potomac.  Guess a lot had to do with how the area developed.
 
As for route numbers, they appear around 1914, probably to make various routes easier to identify in downtown, E. Liberty and Oakland.  Initially the low floor cars could display two numbers.  It didn't take long, according to some PUC records, for route consolidations to occur, freeing up some numbers.  As for outlying shuttle routes, they didn't need number - the public knew where the car was destined.  "Donora" sufficed up to the end.  I've wondered about the early 1920s low floor purchase effect on route numbering.  Were 55 and 56 among the last routes to get low floors, accounting for use of 55A and 56A for short turns?? 
 
Back to Clearview Loop - car 4322 is on a short piece of track that would not interfere with route 38 service.  We used it on several fantrips, usually having to track down a auto owner who was blocking the tracks on Sundays.
 
Cheers
John

> 
> John
> 
> Please have a look at PRC Running Time Spec #4169, attached. While I =
> unfortunately do not have a date for this, it is obviously before the =
> abandonment of Rt. 38 as a separate route and clearly shows that on =
> Saturdays there were trips which were run as 42/38 from Clearview Loop =
> over the Beechview route. This is consistent with my recollection of =
> operations in the early 1960s. How early 42/38 was so designated and =
> signed, I do not know; however, I have a public timetable dated 4 =
> September 1962 which shows this arrangement. However, cars were =
> operated that way as far back as 1904. The 1914 route listing shows =
> #312-Mt. Lebanon-Beechview but the destination sign for this route is =
> shown as 42, not 42/38. There is no separate showing for a route =
> operating to Dormont Jct. only, however, #312 had a variant-Neeld Avenue =
> with destination sign 43 which may have in those years provided all the =
> cutback service to Beechview. Also of note is route 304-Castle =
> Shannon-Mt Lebanon, with a destination sign of 38. This was a through =
> route through the tunnel to downtown. There is no listing for a =
> separate transfer route which we later knew as 38A.
> 
> I agree that this shot is probably one of routine operations. Normal =
> practice was for cars to change ends at Clearview, as to use the loop =
> there could interfere with regular operations of looping Rt. 38 or 42/38 =
> cars turning to return to downtown or South Hills Jct. Clearview loop =
> was only used to turn cars coming in from Castle Shannon in emergency =
> situations--and probably for the odd rail enthusiast tour!
> 
> Dwight
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: John Swindler=20
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org=20
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> Sent: Thursday, 12 August, 2010 23:26
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh 4322 from Gaterman file 409
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For starters, not 42/38. 42/38 was created when route 38 abandoned as =
> separate route circa 1961, long after 4322 was scrapped.
> 
> And not running on route 42 which terminated at Dormont Wye. This is =
> the 38A layover at Clearview loop. This view is looking west towards =
> Washington Blvd.
> 
> And Alfred St. is to right of this picture. Not visible at this =
> angle. Pavement to right would have been used by the three Mt. Lebanon =
> shuttle bus lines - Inglewood, Jefferson and Sunset Hills. They came =
> down an alley to left of photographer
> 
> And what is the motorman doing??? Probably pulling the pole down for =
> his next trip to Castle Shannon.
> 
> Perhaps not such a rare use after all.
> 
> Cheers
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> > Subject: [PRCo] Pittsburgh 4322 from Gaterman file 409
> > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:29:16 -0400
> > CC: biker4 at sbcglobal.net; atholtz at optonline.net; =
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> > To: Pittsburgh-Railways at Dementia.Org
> >=20
> > The photograph forwarded with this e-mail was on Skip Gaterman's =
> daily postcards. It's unusual because route 42 called for double-end =
> cars. Anyone want to venture an opinion why a low 4300 would be =
> running on Dormont? The only suggestion I might have is that there =
> might have been 42/38 trips that terminated in Castle Shannon and then =
> became shuttles.=20
> > Or might it be a trip from South Hills Car House to Mount Lebanon to =
> put the car in service? =20
> >=20
> > The location, by the way, is Washington Road at Alfred Street =
> (Clearview Loop). It is the entrance to the loop from Washington Road. =
> The building over the center door is on the northwest side of =
> Washington Road. This I have confirmed from Bing Maps. All of these =
> buildings exist today (or at the time the aerial photographs were made). =
> =20
> >=20
> > Skip claims there was no identification on the photo other than it =
> is a rare use of this type car. No kidding!!!!
> >=20
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> eg
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