[PRCo] Philosophy 101
Dwight Long
dwightlong at verizon.net
Tue Nov 12 16:50:00 EST 2013
Fred
Ah yes. That one lasted until the end of Rt 65, which PAT extended over the outer end of Rt 55 from Munhall Loop after the Glenwood Bridge was closed to trams. Can't recall how long that arrangement lasted, but I do know it was in effect in early 1965 when I was working for The Corporation and was for a while officed in Homestead Works (RIP).
Dwight
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Schneider
To: Western PA Trolley discussion
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [PRCo] Philosophy 101
I'm thinking of the new Rankin Bridge.
On Nov 12, 2013, at 4:24 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
>
> Fred
>
> I agree with all you say except one little nit pick, and I certainly agree with your overall theme. I'm glad Christoph insisted I ring up Bill that year C and I made our tour of the southeast--we had a most enjoyable breakfast with Bill and that was the last time I ever saw him.
>
> My nitpick is that PRC Rt 55 did not use the High Level Bridge. It was supposed to, after Glenwood Bridge closed, at least that was PRC's plan. PAT had other ideas. The track and wire down Brown's Hill Road and over the bridge into Homestead were kept intact after Rt. 68 Crumped at least until the advent of PAT. Don't know when it became inoperable, but I don't know of any service over it after the 1450 trip the day after Rts. 60 and 68 finished in September 1958.
>
> Dwight
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fred Schneider
> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 2:58 PM
> Subject: [PRCo] Philosophy 101
>
>
> John Swindler wrote: "And just for the record, mom's cousins are scattered around the world."
>
> And John, isn't it fun having an excuse to go see them "scattered around the world?"
>
> There is always a reason to go see a great friend and then you also do something else while you are there. In 2010, I received an e-mail from Kevin Keefe at Kalmbach Publishing one Friday asking if I had any pictures of William D. Middleton he might use in a biography he was doing on Bill in "Classic Trains". I e-mailed him back that I would bring what I had to his office on Monday.
>
> Well, at lunch on Monday a somewhat bewildered Kevin Keefe asked if I always drive 1,000 miles just to deliver a pack of slides? I was compelled to explain that the trip was already planned. I was really driving to the west coast to see two old buddies, both of whom were not in great health and both of whom died within a year … Bill Middleton had gone to see his son, daughter-in-law and grandkids in Seattle and never came home … cancer. Don Duke died within a year of a heart attack while watching television. Sure, I also used it as an excuse to visit a cousin in Wisconsin and have breakfast with a high school classmate in Minneapolis. And it was also an excuse to look at transit facilities in Minneapolis, Edmonton, Vancouver, Sacramento, Los Angeles, San Diego and Phoenix. And there is a great Indian (Punjabi) restaurant in Tempe, Arizona … I've eaten there three times in the last five years.
>
> http://www.the-dhaba.com/
>
> But the real reason for that trip was to see Bill and Don. Three months later Don was pushing up daisies. Bill died the next summer.
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> It's far far better to make time to see the friends than wish we had after we see the obituary.
>
> More and more, these trips to look at new light rail lines are becoming also an excuse to see former high school classmates and railfans and relatives scattered around the planet. Frankly, I recommend it.
>
> (By the way, Rathke, I am alerting people that I am thinking of heading toward Minneapolis next year when the intercity line reopens. I've already planned another lunch with the Kalmbach crew.)
> ____________________________________________________
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> And John, it only took Cunard 70 years to finally honor Victoria.
>
> ____________________________________________________
>
> Yes, Pittsburgh in the 1960s was also a far far different world. I did get my picture looking down over the Westinghouse Bridge toward ET showing the orange smoke pouring out of the stacks at ET. But I never got a picture of the J&L mills on Second Avenue … always wanted to do that at night and they disappeared before I had my chance.
>
> My coverage of Pittsburgh trolleys was based on two axioms … get what I liked and get the routes that were about to be abandoned. Result, I have a lot of stuff on Perrysville because that went past my Grandmother's home. I walked Ardmore Boulevard because I remembered sitting there killing time as a kid when my mom and sister were in the doctor's office. The interurbans … well I walked every inch of them from South Hills Junction to Library and Drake taking pictures simply because they were there. But I missed a lot. Yes, hoofed 62 because I knew it would go. I also walked all of 56 for the same reason. But 55 seemed sound so I ignored it and therefore missed all those great pictures showing US Steel's Homestead Works, the High Level Bridge, Mesta Machine, and all those great pictures that would also show US Steel's Second Avenue mill and the dregs of Glenwood. I also missed all that great stuff to be had in Wilkinsburg and S'Liberty and Bloomfield and Butler Street because they were always going to be there. But I should be glad that I had the chance to ride to Roscoe and Washington on the interurbans instead of lamenting what I didn't photograph.
>
> By the time PAT came along and started wiping out route wholesale conditions had changed on the home front. I was (1) a college kid and (2) married and (3) a papa and I simply didn't have money and time to blow driving 500 miles to take pictures of trolleys. It was after I gave up teaching and went to work with the state that I really got back into the hobby again. By then it was 1969 and all that was left in Pittsburgh was on Mount Oliver, Carrick and a few routes out of Tunnel. So what. T. S.
>
> I may have missed the Liberty Bell Route and Altoona but still, I rode on Nearsides in Philadelphia and semi-convertibles in Baltimore and Brilliners in Atlantic City and through the alley in Hodiamont in St. Louis. Rather than dwell on what we missed, we should relish what we saw. It was fun riding to Atlantic City behind a K4 on the PRSL and photographing EMD FTs owned by the NYO&W at Maybrook (that's nothing but an empty field today). And memories of riding behind steam on the Best and Only down in the Ohio Valley. And things like Tatra PCCs … brand new … in east Berlin. Actually, in one vacation, I saw all but one of all the electric railway in East Germany before reunification … those four wheel Gotha cars were rather nice. And riding copycat Brill semi-convertibles in Porto was great … it was in the 1990s and I was thinking 'these things are still running and in Lancaster we replaced them first with Birneys, then with ACF buses, then with ACF Brill buses, then with GM old look buses, then with Fageol buses in the 1970s but here in Porto these suckers are still running with two-man crews.' We have to enjoy what we saw … look at the flowers and enjoy them!
>
> And most important of all, keep connected with the friends.
>
> On Nov 12, 2013, at 12:45 AM, John Swindler wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Went over on the Queen Mary in 1954, and returned on the Queen Elizabeth. Was only 7 at the time, and memories are almost non-existent. Sort of like West Penn memories. It's frustrating. I envy those with memories from their early years.
>>
>> As you know, Cunard used names ending in 'ia' for their ships. Like Lusitania. When a new passenger liner was to be named in the mid-1930s, the Cunard chairman met with King George V to ask permission to name the ship after a famous British Queen. Before the chairman could say that it would be the kings' grandmother, 'Victoria', the king replied "my wife would be delighted". And that's the legend why it was named the Queen Mary, and not the Queen Victoria.
>>
>> Cunard is now part of the Carnival family of cruise lines, and still offers trans-Atlantic service. I've seen one-way prices around $700 between New York and Southampton.
>>
>> As for boat trains, they still existed in 1970. Took the "advance" boat train (separate train about ten minutes ahead of regular train) from Liverpool St. to Harwich for overnight ferry boat to Hook of Holland. Had seen advertisement posted in the Brighton train station. Round trip train and ferry boat London to Holland, two nights in Rotterdam hotel, and three-day pass on the Hague, Rotterdam and Amsterdam transit plus pass on Dutch Rys. Price was 15 pounds - or around $40. If it had not been for a summer job driving buses in Chicago, and Point Park College (to provide a Pittsburgh connection) moving fall semester to end before Christmas, this European vacation would have been impossible. But looking back today, it was a far - far different world. Likewise, Pittsburgh in the 1960s is also a far different world.
>>
>> And just for the record, mom's cousins are scattered around the world.
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
>>> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 22:40:05 -0500
>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>>> Subject: [PRCo] More of London (2)
>>>
>>> This is only for those who care. The others may delete it.
>>>
>>> One knows only who really loves the same thing he or she does and also who despises the subject. Those who like it might tell you. Those who violently disagree generally make sure you know. Those who waver to either side … you sometimes know while the masses in the middle will never say anything. This is for those who might care.
>>>
>>> There are two guys on his list whom I know to be Anglophiles. I once told Derrick that I had done something so crazy as having dashed off to London, England, with my wife merely to attend the theater on Saturday night. Mr. Brashear advised me that he had once done the same. The other one I know would be John Swindler, whose Mum followed his Dad home from England at the end of World War II. John still has cousins in Britain. Dwight Long has been there a few times. And I've been there so many times (18 at last count) that when I looked at a travel video of one town two weeks ago, I got that same feeling we all get when we come home from vacation … the "it's great to be home" feeling. By the way, I get that I'm home feeling in many places ranging from where I live to Pittsburgh or Los Angeles or some English or German or Swiss towns. It comes from wandering.
>>>
>>> Beside John and Derrick, some of the rest of you might enjoy some of these videos and the attached narrative and this is for you.
>>>
>>> My first visit to Great Britain occurred in August 1959 when I had a one day escape from an army troop ship docked at Southampton.
>>> Because I knew from an American railfan friend that London Underground was still running steam locomotives on the Metropolitan Division northwest of Rickmansworth, I escaped from the tour and went searching for these 1896 teakettles. Back then the we could ride behind one of the electric engines in this video from Baker St. out to Rickmansworth and behind steam beyond. I sniffed soft coal smoke all afternoon. (To put it into perspective, a few weeks before I had been to the opening of the Riverside line in Boston.)
>>>
>>> The original Circle Line tube was opened by the Metropolitan as a steam underground railway. Can you imagine all that dirt underground? Well, if you look at the stations today, all the air vents that allowed the smoke to escape have been bricked up. But early in 2013 they ran some steam excursions with Metropolitan number 1 and one of those electric engines (the Sarah Siddons) which I rode behind in 1959 … the electric was doing most of the work.
>>>
>>> But there were not options when it opened. In 1868 steam was modern. We would not have successful electric technology for another 22 years and MU operation for another 30 years. In fact it was extend under steam multiple times until 1884 and was not electrified until 1905. (See for history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_line_(London_Underground)
>>>
>>> And here is the first video….
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg4GY9aKfRE
>>>
>>> Now the punch line … I was standing at Baker Street the following year (1960) when a Metropolitan guard came up and started to chat. When it came time for him to leave, he grabbed me by the arm and pushed me up into the cab of one of those old electric engines like Sarah Siddons and I had a free ride out to Rickmansworth and back. Then I spent the rest of the evening with him chatting in a local pub and trying to make like I enjoyed warm ale. Turns out I think he was attracted to how I had mounted two cameras side-by-side to take both slides and negatives. He had been trained as a photographer in New York City but could not find job when he returned to London so he wound up working for London Transport.
>>>
>>> And another nice flick of the Tube in London. Unlike New York, Chicago, Boston and Philadelphia, London has had a zone fare system for as long as I've going over there and that goes back to the pounds, shillings and pence days. Can you imagine looking at the change in your hand and telling if its correct … 12 pence to the shillings, 20 shillings to the pound? They also had half pence. (A quarter pence was called a farthing so that a haypenny was two farthings.) They actually had some children's tickets on the tube that ended in half pence back then. It only took a few weeks before that came naturally but I was 20 then. It probably wouldn't be that easy at 73.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_olfhN3elog
>>>
>>> In case you are confused by the multiple rails, LT has separate positive and negative power rails in addition to the two running rails. I think they have the ability to switch polarity so do not assume either one is the hot rail. You might have a standard but if the insulation fails on one, you could easily reverse polarity. The national railroad network, on the other hand, uses only one power rail.
>>>
>>> My next thought was to remind people of what it was like in World War II, when the tubes were used as bomb shelters. I started looking to see what might have been on line. Here is a great 1941 educational film on keeping the system running in war time. You say, 1941 and wartime? Yes, they were at war long before we were … England and Germany were at war since Sept., 1939. Much of the equipment in this film was still running when I first got there in 1959. By the way … you see buses in the heart of the city. London never had trams in the heart of the city. They came only to the perimeter. All the northern tram routes were gone by the time this film was made in 1941.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH2ZC9rbxSw
>>>
>>> Perhaps the best tram film I ever saw from London was this commercial film made in the last week of service in 1952. It was once pulled for copyright infringement and now I found it again buried under the heading "British Transport Films." Before it gets yanked again, enjoy, if you will, "The Elephant Never Forgets." It's a reference to an intersection in the south of London … think Elephant and Castle. I love the older couple riding the top deck, maybe because I have fond memories of viewing downtown Glasgow from the top deck of a tram. And John Krish, the man who photographed this, was fired for taking it … he was told only to photograph the chairman of London Transport shaking hands with the last tram driver. He was told not to make a 10 minute film.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc9gtJndKE4
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, there is no easy way to find videos that show people camped in the underground stations to avoid the Blitzkrieg in 1940 or 1941. We didn't have high speed movie films or digital cameras then. There are still pictures out there. Can you imagine thousands upon thousands of people who survived because the slept on the concrete station platforms underground? There are many films of the bombing of London on YouTube under keywords like Blitzkrieg or Blitz of London or Battle of London but nothing that really shows how the transit system was damaged. (Now, a lot of the items out there are copyrighted … someone puts it on YouTube illegally and it disappears a few months later when it is discovered … the good stuff might have been there and is gone.)
>>>
>>> How many of us even know today that the song lyrics, "and Jimmy will go to sleep in his own little room again" referred to all the English kids who were sent to the country or even to other nations to get away from the bombs during the war? By the way, the "Forces Sweetheart," Vera Lynn, is still alive at age 96.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwtW2Lx5Vwc
>>>
>>> Southwest of "The City" is a place called Clapham Junction where two railroads, the one that built Victoria Station and the one whose home was Waterloo Station crossed. It is still one of those places where you can commonly photograph two or three or four trains all moving at the same time. This should give you some idea what I meant in the previous e-mail that the Underground isn't important south of the Thames; instead its the national network rail that fills the void. I've been to both places and Clapham actually makes Jamaica on the Long Island dull by comparison.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjgoL0TryA8
>>>
>>> And, as of 2012, there is a second circle line called the London Overground … sort of like we might have a second Beltway around a city. The London Overground is made up of national railroad network lines:
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YqsdXXbwOI
>>>
>>> This link is specifically for John Swindler, who did sail with his Mum on the Queen Elizabeth (or maybe it was the Queen Mary) to see Grandmum. It has a great picture of a boat train leaving the dock at Southampton with a "Battle of Britain" class Pacific up front and the Queen sitting at anchor. That particular locomotive was erected in December 1948 and ran until 1967; RMS Queen Mary made its final crossing the following year.
>>>
>>> http://cruiselinehistory.com/boat-trains-to-southampton-from-cunard-lines-to-the-rms-titanic-and-the-ss-united-states/
>>>
>>> Most of you remember Chicago as a city with almost more mainline train stations than you could count … Union, Central, LaSalle, Dearborn, Northwestern, Grand Central. Well, London was the same kind of place but with even more stations. The railroads were not unified into British Railways until 1948 and some of them were merged earlier. But most of the stations remain today. Paddington was Great Western's station in 1854 and Isambard Kingdom Brunnel's statue is still prominent there. Euston dates back to 1837 and served the London and Birmingham Railway originally and eventually the London, Midland and Scottish. St. Pancras, right next to King's Cross, was built in 1866 and served trains to the Midlands. Today it also handles the Eurostar services to Paris and Brussels which circle the city on new track. King's Cross goes back to 1852 and is home today to the East Coast mainline to Scotland. Victoria opened in 1860 and served four companies on the south. Waterloo dates to 1848 for trains to the southwest. Charing Cross opened in the financial district in 1864 and allowed trains ending at London Bridge to cross the river into the City. Liverpool Street in the east handles trains going out into the Fen country … if you take a boat train to Holland, you use it and it goes back to 1875. And all these places are still open. And there are a few minor places like Marylebone. There are five terminals in about two miles along Euston St / Marylebone Road across the north side of the city!
>>>
>>> And when Mr. Swindler and I were first there, the southern ones were mostly third rail or steam and the northern stations were almost all steam. Great memories.
>>>
>>> My arrival in London in 1959 was a Waterloo Station. Here is a stop motion film of Waterloo Station in the rush hour 40 years ago. What's happened since then? The traffic has gotten heavier and the old compartmented stock is gone. You want that last phrase in American English? British Railways had a lot of rolling stock with ten seat compartments, each with doors on both sides. It has all been scrapped due to the inherent hazards of being mugged or robbed or assaulted (sexually or otherwise) if you wound up in a compartment with the wrong person.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPIaG644jsI
>>>
>>> And a cluster of high definition scenes in King's Cross, Euston, St. Pancras and Paddington
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnFuaDntIbw
>>>
>>> And if anyone has the time waste, here is an hour-long film of steam in Britain, remastered from 8 mm films taken in the early 1960s … the time I remember. The last steam engines were delivered in 1958, a year before I first went there. The last fires were dropped about eight years later (maybe nine) except for more tourist railroads than you will anywhere else. Yes, it was a different world from here … vacuum brakes back then. Most trains were so light that very few engines had stokers. A fitted freight had brakes on all cars. They had compartmented carriages (not coaches). The engines didn't need headlights because, except for one grade crossing, the entire network was fenced and gated. But the steam engines still sounded like steam engines.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXw_cQbr6Do
>>>
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