[PRCo] Cleveland numbers
Herb Brannon
hrbran at cavtel.net
Tue Nov 26 11:40:38 EST 2013
I can introduce you to three young people in my apartment building. They
are one male 23 yrs old, one female 22yrs old and one female 24 yrs old. I
can also introduce you to the other four people living in the building (NOT
counting myself) who are all past 45 years old who use PATransit on a daily
basis. I am the only person in my building who has a vehicle. Also, those
young people are daily riders of PATransit. Sometimes, like I have always
said, we tend not to really get to know the city and are content to stay in
the suburban areas.
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Derrick Brashear <shadow at dementix.org>wrote:
> i'm younger. well. probably younger than the rest of you. i'm 40.
>
> if i can avoid driving i do. before i had an enforced 1 month pause in
> biking due to breaking my hand i
> rode 2500 miles from may 1 to september 25, including trips to such places
> as new kensington (round trip), monroeville (also round trip), manor, and
> robinson (the short way, 14 miles via steuben st, and the long way, 68
> miles via glassport and clairton.
>
> so yeah.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Lattner, Raymond <rlattner at pa.gov>
> wrote:
>
> > Who are these "younger people" that you speak of that do not want to
> drive
> > by choice? I can tell you
> > That in my world both my son and daughter could think of nothing but the
> > day they could obtain their
> > Learners permit to drive. Ditto for buying their own cars. This was true
> > of all their friends also.
> >
> > Take public transit when they could drive themselves, NEVER.
> >
> > Disclaimer. This was meant in a humorous way and not to criticize your
> > comments.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org [mailto:
> > pittsburgh-railways-bounces at mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of John
> > Swindler
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 11:04 AM
> > To: Western PA Trolley discussion
> > Subject: Re: [PRCo] Cleveland numbers
> >
> >
> >
> > Transit ridership is rising for several reasons. One surprise was that
> > younger people don't think the same way as us "old geezer" generation.
> > They are NOT as enamored by autos. Not massive numbers of young people
> -
> > just a couple percentage points. Negligible effect on highways, but
> > significant impact on transit ridership. This comment was from Amtrak -
> > they are finding young people not only without cars, but without drivers
> > license - not by circumstances, but by choice.
> >
> > Also, never realized that Amtrak handles four oil trains a day to a
> > Delaware refinery. Amtrak admits they never saw (this traffic) coming.
> >
> > And we should all be aware that VRE exists. I thought it was just a
> > couple daily commuter trains from Virginia into Washington. Didn't
> realize
> > that it was 30 daily trains. Busiest station?? If assumed it was Union
> > Station, would be wrong. It's L'Enfant Plaza. VRE is currently at
> > capacity and has more cars on-order. Also negotiating with railroads for
> > extensions to both lines.
> >
> > MARC ridership was around 18,000 in 1997. Currently around 36,000
> riders.
> > It's seen a 3.5% average annual growth over past 15 years.
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> > > Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 10:25:48 -0500
> > > To: pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> > > Subject: Re: [PRCo] Cleveland numbers
> > >
> > > The positive numbers are in the western and southwestern cities. Los
> > Angeles has more rail riders today than Pacific Electric had in their
> 1923
> > peak.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 26, 2013, at 6:18 AM, PC wrote:
> > >
> > > > ..........><http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railway
> > > > s/2013-November/032450.html> ..........>from Fred Schneider
> > > > fwschneider at comcast.net ..........>Sun Nov 24 11:32:53 EST 2013
> > > >
> > > > ..........>Do not know where you find positive Cleveland numbers.....
> > > >
> > > > The above is your original question isn't it. You could not find
> > positive Cleveland Numbers. I answered that question didn't I.
> > > > Positive Cleveland numbers were provided. Now all this below.......
> > > > You seem disappointed that ridership is rising--transit ridership,
> > trolley, tram, bus--interests of people on this list.
> > > > How is it possible to please you?
> > > >
> > > > To address Cleveland ridership one observes the trend is sloping
> > > > downward with occasional rises above and dips below this trendline.
> > This is very openly noticed and admitted, along with the following:
> > > > 1-birds are hatched, birds grow, birds live, birds grow old, birds
> die.
> > > > 2-animals are born, animals grow, animals live, animals grow old,
> > animals die.
> > > > 3-plants sprout, plants grow, plants live, plants grow old, plants
> die.
> > > > 4-People are born, people grow, people live, people grow old, people
> > die.
> > > > 5-a business is formed, the business grows, the business thrives, the
> > business grows old, the business dies.
> > > > 6-industries form, industries grow, industries thrive, industries
> > grows old, industries die.
> > > > 7-etc.
> > > > 8-Everything has its day in the sun [then trundles into the mists of
> > > > history.] Vanity vanity; all is vanity. King Solomon
> > > >
> > > > Nothing lasts forever does it. Nothing is all inclusive isn't it.
> > > >
> > > > But if it makes you happy:
> > > >
> > > > People are falling off transit! People are falling off transit!
> > > > The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
> > > > Woe is mankind. Woe is mankind.
> > > > The end is here. The end is here.
> > > >
> > > > sighhh.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Pc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------
> > > > On Sun, 11/24/13, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Subject: [PRCo] Cleveland numbers
> > > > To: "Western PA Trolley discussion"
> > > > <pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
> > > > Date: Sunday, November 24, 2013, 4:14 PM
> > > >
> > > > Most agencies in industrial areas had increases in the last three
> > > > years because we were coming out
> > > > of the recession. Of course if you only
> > > > look at the last three years, then you miss the large drop in riding
> > > > at the beginning of the recession.
> > > >
> > > > Cleveland had a drop of perhaps 12 million the year going into the
> > > > 2010 recession but it appears to be masked by a series break in the
> > > > counts between 2005 and
> > > > 2006. A series break is a statistical term
> > > > when something happens to screw up the
> > > > data. The information was not sent to APTA
> > > > for 2006 leading me to suspect that perhaps the guy or gal who was
> > > > crunching the numbers in 2004 retired and the new person didn't
> > > > understand how to do it the same way and took several years to get
> > > > his or her act
> > > > together. Then in 2008, Cleveland sent in
> > > > data for both 2006 and 2007. Those 66 and 60 million
> > > > numbers in 2006 and 2007 look rather fishy.
> > > > S--t happens.
> > > >
> > > > The true numbers are probably more like a drop to about 52 or 53
> > > > million riders in the 2000-2001 recession, then back up to around 57
> > > > million through most of the early 200s until we hit the big
> > > > recession and then down to 44
> > > > million.
> > > >
> > > > Here are the total Cleveland numbers (Bus, Rapid, Light Rail and
> > > > Demand Responsive) since 1995 by year from the APTA website.
> > > >
> > > > 1995: 58.265 million Cleveland
> > > > city population around 492,000.
> > > > 1996: 58.736 million
> > > > 1997: 60.892 million
> > > > 1998: 60.557 million
> > > > 1999: 59.300 million
> > > > 2000: 59.116 million 2000-2001
> > > > Recession Cleveland city population 2000 census
> > > > 478,403
> > > > 2001: 58.128 million Unemployed in
> > > > Cleveland number around 45,000.
> > > > 2002: 52.626 million
> > > > 2003: 53.446 million Unemployed in
> > > > Cleveland area top 60,000
> > > > 2004: 55.419 million
> > > > 2005: 57.026 million
> > > > 2006: 66,602 million Average unemployed in
> > > > Cleveland about 62,000
> > > > 2007: 60,025 million Average unemployed in
> > > > Cleveland region around 67,000
> > > > 2008: 57,287 million 2008-2009
> > > > recession Average unemployment in Cleveland
> > > > around 72,000.
> > > > 2009: 49,706 million Unemployment over
> > > > 80,000 people in Cleveland
> > > > 2010: 44.592 million Average unemployed in
> > > > Cleveland between 95,000 and 100,000. City population
> > > > 396,815.
> > > > 2011: 46.175 million Average unemployed in
> > > > Cleveland about 82,000.
> > > > 2012: 48.152 million Unemployment in
> > > > Cleveland in the high 70,000 range.
> > > > 2012: looks like a 1/3 of 1% increase
> > > >
> > > > http://www.deptofnumbers.com/unemployment/ohio/cleveland/
> > > >
> > > > Phillip, I trust some agency numbers more than
> > > > others. Houston, for example, counts light
> > > > rail passengers as they walk through a light beam in the car
> > > > doorway. No matter how they pay their fare
> > > > ... pass, cash fare, or simply sneak on ... they are
> > > > counted. PATCO is probably fairly reliable
> > > > because every rider has a magnetically encoded ticket and they are
> > > > counted going through the fare gates.
> > > >
> > > > In addition, some counts are just plain lies because the agencies
> > > > are trying to prove to politicians that they are
> > > > worth bigger subsidies. Some are accidental
> > > > lies. Some are misunderstandings of
> > > > procedures. Some are done by clerks who
> > > > don't give a rat's ass. Some are
> > > > excellent.
> > > >
> > > > But, except for the apparent break in the numbers in 2006 and 2007,
> > > > I have no reason to suspect the continuity of the Cleveland numbers
> > > > because they mirror what is happening in the economy and with the
> > > > local population.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> > > > https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
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--
Herb Brannon
*In Pittsburgh.............................A City AndAnd A State of Mind*
Let's Go Pens
Let's Go Steelers
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