[PRCo] PRC Interurban Service early 1950s

Fri Sep 5 06:10:16 EDT 2014

>> On 2014.09.04-Thur 11.12-AM, Jim Holland wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Chris!
>>
>> I believe we discussed this some time back but I can not find details 
>> -- other computer crashed and information may be on it.
>>
>> Schedules on the 3-Interurbans the day after Washington service ended 
>> 30-Aug-1953 reveal 10-minute headway through Overbrook mid-day.  
>> Library and Drake cars had 20-min-headway mid-day; Shannon cars Only 
>> Operated rush hours.  (Those schedules are attached making it a 
>> double-post for the lisp -- Please See PSs!)
>>
>> Schedule_35-36-37_19530830_1of2.jpg
>>
>> Schedule_35-36-37_19530830_2of2.jpg
>>
>> Thus it stands to reason when the Char and Wash Interurbans ceased 
>> operations in tandem and operated 15-min-apart through Overbrook 
>> (late 1950s, early 1951-forward) 15-min between Only Char and Wash 
>> cars was insufficient to meet demand.  As I Remember service through 
>> Overbrook after tandem Interurban operations ceased was every 7-8-min 
>> each direction "Mid-Day, 8-cars an hour."  Thus Shannon and West 
>> Library cars (37/L) split the headway between the Char and Wash 
>> Interurbans.  (Were schedules cut to the "Half-Minute?"  We still had 
>> those in the 1970s on San Fran Crisco Muni!)
>>
>> Using "(37/L)" for Shannon//WLibrary cars, a SB schedule from Pgh 
>> (approx late 1950 into early-1953) might look something like this -- 
>> ALL cars running local--making all stops:
>>
>> 00--Char
>> 07--(37/L)
>> 15--Wash
>> 22--(37/L)
>> 30--Char
>> 37--(37/L)
>> 45--Wash
>> 52--(37/L) 
>
> On Thu Sep 4 12:45:39 EDT 2014, Dwight Long dwightlong at verizon.net 
> wrote
>
> Here is the story of Simmons Loop and its opening to service.  The 
> loop WAS constructed prior to the end of service on Rt. C early Sunday 
> morning 28 June 1953.  It was built such that the curve out of the 
> loop leading to the northbound main line was laid UNDER the southbound 
> main track.  Just a few hours were needed later that Sunday for crews 
> to cut the southbound main and put the loop into use.

Hi, Dwight!

SIX_Attachments Included.

Simmons loop was built at grade with a grade crossing (4-crossing frogs) 
of the curve and SB main.  Whether or not the northbound main had a 
trail switch is not known but is suspected.  This allows uninterrupted 
operation (except very minor delays of installation); the unneeded 
hardware can be removed any time after Charleroi ceases operations----NO 
rush!  About a decade ago a photo was posted here showing the crossing 
-- the photographer was south looking north.  I believe Mark in Florida 
posted the photo.  I have searched the lisp photo files:
http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/
...using:  "Char; prw; loop; track; sim" each of them separately to see 
if I could find the photo which I could not.  Maybe others shall be more 
successful.

Ed may have track diagrams at PTM which reveal this construction.  I do 
not understand construction underneath both SB and NB main tracks -- 
this would be far more work than necessary and result in bending rail 
into a grade.  Railways generally had old hardware on hand (removed from 
other locations but still usable) for such purposes. Removal of crossing 
(along with trail point//mate) allow installation of larger curved 
section on new loop without excess joints.

> As to the question of when Rt. 37 became rush hour only,  the 
> reference I was seeking is in ERA Electric Railroads No. 20, published 
> in July 1952, which was authored by John Baxter.  He states:  "A local 
> service sharing the trackage out of Pittsburgh with the interurbans 
> began operation to Fair Haven (Frederick Street) in 1916, extended 
> later to Shannon, then to Library in 1924.  Restrictions in riding 
> interurbans locally in this area became effective from time to time 
> from 1916 to the fall of 1951 when Route 37-Shannon service was 
> eliminated during the off peak hours."  After that rush hour 
> interurbans carried a small sign in the front window stating something 
> like "first stop Frederick Street" (I don't recall the exact 
> wording).  Operators were supposed to use the roll signs for the route 
> WITHOUT the Shannon prefix, i.e. "Charleroi" instead of 
> "Shannon-Charleroi," but human nature being what it is I have no idea 
> how often this nicety was observed.  More reliance, I assume, was 
> placed upon the normals' knowing the drill and staying off the 
> interurbans in rush hours if they were destined to points short of 
> Frederick Street.

Here is a portion of what Chris wrote in response to my question quoted 
above.  He indicates the collection of schedules ceases with 1949.  His 
information is from March-1953 Schedules which confirm what I wrote:::  
Castle Shannon to downtown and return to Castle Shannon was every 
7-8+minutes with Char and Wash Interurbans 15-min apart and "Local" 
service (37/L) centered between C & W!:::

        On 2014-09-04 14:36, CWalker wrote:

        March, 1953 -- Art Ellis saved a set of company schedules before
        the system began to be pared down with the June operator "pick."

        In 1953, they were operating a full compliment of Shannon cars
        intermingled with the W and C runs -- so, as you point out,
        mid-day service consisted of a car every 7 -- 8 minutes between
        Shannon and Downtown. That may have been the case from 1951 on;
        if I had to guess, I would say so. The weekend locals were
        largely extended to Library as before. On Saturdays, the Library
        trips operated a 30 minute headway most of the day, and were
        interlined with 37 trips. In other words, the car ran into town
        as Route L and left the city as Route 37. This provided a 15
        minute local service between Castle Shannon and the city in
        addition to the 15 minute interurbans. Sundays, the Library cars
        ran every 15 minutes, again providing a combined 7 -- 8 minute
        over the shared trackage.

        The August 30 timetable shows the extent of the service after
        the interurbans were cut. To some extent, scheduling was
        simplified, especially for the Library cars which previously had
        to be scheduled out of West Library Loop in "time windows" to
        avoid fouling up the signals for the Charleroi runs (or getting
        stuck in the loop and behind schedule).

        There's more, I'm sure -- I'll do a little more looking once I
        get home. Schedules tell a lot about the operation, and are a
        great resource for understanding things!

        Chris

I would suspect Ed Lybarger already knows this or knows of Chris 
Walker's work; he may be able to confirm and enlarge upon the topic.  
The above does not completely resolve the matter as this is data for 
1953, but it does confirm what I mentioned for this time period with 
logic strongly suggesting 8-cars an hour each way through Overbrook in 
1951 instead of just 4-cars.  With 6-cars each direction in Sept-1953, 
an increase of 50% over alleged 4-cars in 1951, does not seem logical.  
Anything IS possible, but that does not seem probable.  Ridership was 
dropping by 1953 as post-war economy was improving with returning vets 
finding enough money to buy that Family car!

The 1952 "Headlights" special on the PRCo Interurban system is widely 
owned and respected by many of us.  It is a Very Good Source of 
information but not infallible as has been discovered here over the last 
decade -- it is good information until original PRCo documents are 
discovered to confirm it or deny it.

> The same reference confirms that the diversionary route for the 
> interurbans was indeed Rt. 38 on West Liberty Avenue and not through 
> Beechview on Rt. 42 as I had remembered.

A portion of a 1961-schedule attached reveals a couple Drake trips that 
returned to the Barn over the 38-Mt.Lebanon.  I was surprized to see 
that; it was rarely listed in the schedules.  Library and Shannon cars 
also did this on a very regular basis but they are not so listed.  It 
was more than a half-dozen cars.

Harold Geissenheimer was a lisp member -- he gave details of County Fair 
Service at South Park post WW2 where ALL SB interurbans used the 
38-Mt.Lebanon to Castle Shannon, then regular route.  As Fair service 
was about every minute, 38A service was busted.  ALL NB Interurban 
service used Overbrook.  Signal masts north of Mesta were covered; all 
operated on sight with many route inspectors at key points.  A DE 
shuttle using the SB track between Oak and Castle Shannon provided 
'simulated' OB // SB traffic.  A series of attached photos reveal this.

WE_LOOK_Forward to seeing some of your 38-Mt.Lebanon photos just before 
"abandonment!"  You are getting some nice photos here!

-- 
Jim

Schedule_36-Weekday_19610430_2of2_0600_020.jpg

3801_35+OB_DawnJct_19470901_CJD_018.jpg -- Beautiful photo -- SLCCo 
Charleroi Interurban OB on 38-Mt.Lebanon

4913_35+OB_DawnRampWLibertyAve_19470901_CJD_021.jpg

3711_36+OB_DawnRampWLibertyAve_19470901_CJD_023.jpg

3711_36+IB_4322_37+OB_Oak_19470901_CJD_021.jpg

3801_SouthParkServiceDescription_19470901_CJD_025.jpg

*

*

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