[PRCo] visual pollution or work of art

Fred Schneider fwschneider at comcast.net
Sun Dec 15 18:42:17 EST 2013 

Where did the idea for foot operated turn signals originate Herb?   Any idea?

I first saw such a thing on Atlanta Transit System buses back in 1956.



On Dec 15, 2013, at 5:58 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:

> The GM's were a problem when I worked at PATransit also. PAT purchases of
> GM buses beginning with the 2100-series had an interesting option on them.
> The left side of the bus floor, by the pedals, (where the deadman pedal
> would be on a PCC) had four (4) foot operated switches. One was the
> high-beam/low beam headlamp control, another two were the left and right
> turn signals and the fourth one was to the rear of the turn signal
> switches. This switch was a "transmission override" which, when pushed with
> the left heel, would cause the transmission to drop from high to low gear.
> This was for use on the hills. When the bus would "dog out" going up the
> hill you would kick the transmission into low using this floor switch and
> would keep going up the hill at a somewhat reasonable rate of speed.
> 
> Some thought was actually put into the placement of the four switches on
> the floor. You could rest your left foot with the shoe-toe between the turn
> signal switches and the left shoe-heel just to the right of the
> transmission override switch. You could then operate those three switches
> just with a simple quick movement of the left toe or heel to the desired
> switch. The high beam switch required the foot to be lifted up and over the
> turn signal switches to hit it. However, this switch was not used that
> often. Also, the placement  of these switches was so that the left foot was
> in a comfortable position, similar to the position of the left foot on a
> PCC deadman pedal.
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Bob Rathke <bobrathke at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>> When PRC bussed the 1-Spring Garden and 5-Spring Hill lines in Oct., 1957,
>> they replaced the trolleys with then-new Mack buses. The Mack buses handled
>> the hill with ease, but in 1958 GM buses started to appear on Spring Hill
>> and they really labored just to maintain a slow speed.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> 
>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion" <
>> pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:11:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] visual pollution or work of art
>> 
>> I was not aware that Paris was conduit also.   My library on Germany,
>> Switzerland and Britain is extensive … then it gets a little thin.   Paris
>> was also one of those cities that quit before
>> 
>> Explaining Dayton would be like trying to explain why a retard in
>> Johnstown thought he was doing something right by converting streetcars to
>> trolley buses in 1960 when he could see he was already losing his shirt.
>> 
>> I am not sure how much difference the trolley bus performance is compared
>> to today's diesels and better transmissions.    If you were talking 1950, I
>> would have given you a resounding AMEN.   Today I am not sure.   I remember
>> ACF Brill C36 buses crawling up Kissel Hill at 15 mph in second gear in the
>> 1950s heading into Lititz.   Today's newer diesels sail up at 40.
>> 
>> On Dec 13, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Fred
>>> 
>>> Two points.
>>> 
>>> 1)  Add Paris
>>> 
>>> 2)  Not just cost of fuel, but operational performance on those SF
>> hills.  Somewhat similar situation in Seattle.  But who can explain Dayton?
>>> 
>>> Dwight
>>> 
>>> From: Fred Schneider
>>> Sent: Friday, 13 December, 2013 12:34
>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] visual pollution or work of art
>>> I think there is a basic premise that if you put two people in a room,
>> Dennis, you have a potential argument.    Politicians have learned to use
>> them to their advantage.
>>> 
>>> As Phillip pointed out, the long lens can be deliberately used to make
>> the trolley wires look ugly.   The telephoto lens can also be used in hilly
>> cities like San Francisco and Pittsburgh to enhance the view, make the
>> streets look steeper, and make the distant objects seem closer.    If we
>> used a 28 mm lens to take the slide (or 15 mm on digital) many of us would
>> never find the wires objectionable.   But there will always be those who
>> will see the ugly … otherwise New York, Washington and London would have
>> never been forced to invest fortunes in underground conduit to power their
>> trolley lines.
>>> 
>>> But I see nothing more than a San Francisco Chronicle photographer who
>> was asked to make it look ugly to support the visual pollution theme in the
>> article.   He was sent out to prove a point.   Very little journalism today
>> is unbiased.   You get readers, then advertisers, and make money if you
>> jump into the middle of a debate.
>>> 
>>> In the 1940s, General Electric published a booklet in which they aimed,
>> of course, to sell their hardware.   They explained that if you could fill
>> your vehicle, on average, every five minutes, then buy PCC cars.   If the
>> traffic required service every 5 to 7 minutes, use trolley buses.   Over 7
>> minutes, use diesel buses.   If the service was erratic, then use gasoline
>> buses.   Of course those were average economics in the 1940s.  That window
>> for trolley buses vanished as we bought cars after the war and most cities
>> which bought them found they had made a huge mistake by the early 1950s.
>> San Francisco was the exception because the city owned its own
>> hydro-electric plant in the Sierra Nevada mountains … except for paying
>> Pacific Gas and Electric a transmission charge, the power was almost free.
>>  So while most cities got rid of their trackless trolleys, Muni kept
>> theirs.   I guess if Muni has any sense, they will keep the electric
>> network because the price of fossil fuels can only go up as the global
>> supply diminishes.
>>> 
>>> Wouldn't you like to see a survey showing how many of the complainers
>> about the visual pollution from the wires ride transit and how many drive
>> their own cars?   And perhaps also how many realize how much their taxes
>> might go up if they had to pay for fossil fuels to run the network and how
>> many of the protesters are clueless?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:44 AM, DF Cramer wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Not Pennsylvania-----but some of us consider wire work an integral part
>> of the electric transit experience and some do not. You decide----I think
>> the photographer was leaning towards art.
>>>> 
>> http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Muni-trolley-wire-visual-pollution-electrifies-5056671.php
>>>> 
>>>> Dennis F. Cramer
>>>> http://home.windstream.net/dfc1/
>>>> 
>>>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Herb Brannon
> 
> 
> *In Pittsburgh.............................A City And.........A State of
> Mind *
> Let's Go Pens
> Let's Go Steelers
> 
> 
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