[PRCo] visual pollution or work of art

Sun Dec 15 19:08:48 EST 2013

New York TA started using them in the 1950s. Columbus, OH had some GM New
Looks with them in the 1960s. The buses equipped with the turn signal
"arms" on the steering column were always a pain in the @$$. The arms,
after they wore out, required the operator to keep hands on the arm to keep
the signal flashing. I have had them fall off the steering column because
they were so worn out they couldn't take it any longer. Typical of US auto
manufacturers (GM to be exact) to think every vehicle could use the same
flimsy piece of equipment no matter how much service it was to see. New
York started the foot switch because of "hands on the steering wheel"
safety reasons. Not sure about Columbus.

On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:

> Where did the idea for foot operated turn signals originate Herb?   Any
> idea?
>
> I first saw such a thing on Atlanta Transit System buses back in 1956.
>
>
>
> On Dec 15, 2013, at 5:58 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>
> > The GM's were a problem when I worked at PATransit also. PAT purchases of
> > GM buses beginning with the 2100-series had an interesting option on
> them.
> > The left side of the bus floor, by the pedals, (where the deadman pedal
> > would be on a PCC) had four (4) foot operated switches. One was the
> > high-beam/low beam headlamp control, another two were the left and right
> > turn signals and the fourth one was to the rear of the turn signal
> > switches. This switch was a "transmission override" which, when pushed
> with
> > the left heel, would cause the transmission to drop from high to low
> gear.
> > This was for use on the hills. When the bus would "dog out" going up the
> > hill you would kick the transmission into low using this floor switch and
> > would keep going up the hill at a somewhat reasonable rate of speed.
> >
> > Some thought was actually put into the placement of the four switches on
> > the floor. You could rest your left foot with the shoe-toe between the
> turn
> > signal switches and the left shoe-heel just to the right of the
> > transmission override switch. You could then operate those three switches
> > just with a simple quick movement of the left toe or heel to the desired
> > switch. The high beam switch required the foot to be lifted up and over
> the
> > turn signal switches to hit it. However, this switch was not used that
> > often. Also, the placement  of these switches was so that the left foot
> was
> > in a comfortable position, similar to the position of the left foot on a
> > PCC deadman pedal.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Bob Rathke <bobrathke at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> When PRC bussed the 1-Spring Garden and 5-Spring Hill lines in Oct.,
> 1957,
> >> they replaced the trolleys with then-new Mack buses. The Mack buses
> handled
> >> the hill with ease, but in 1958 GM buses started to appear on Spring
> Hill
> >> and they really labored just to maintain a slow speed.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>
> >> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion" <
> >> pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:11:28 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [PRCo] visual pollution or work of art
> >>
> >> I was not aware that Paris was conduit also.   My library on Germany,
> >> Switzerland and Britain is extensive … then it gets a little thin.
> Paris
> >> was also one of those cities that quit before
> >>
> >> Explaining Dayton would be like trying to explain why a retard in
> >> Johnstown thought he was doing something right by converting streetcars
> to
> >> trolley buses in 1960 when he could see he was already losing his shirt.
> >>
> >> I am not sure how much difference the trolley bus performance is
> compared
> >> to today's diesels and better transmissions.    If you were talking
> 1950, I
> >> would have given you a resounding AMEN.   Today I am not sure.   I
> remember
> >> ACF Brill C36 buses crawling up Kissel Hill at 15 mph in second gear in
> the
> >> 1950s heading into Lititz.   Today's newer diesels sail up at 40.
> >>
> >> On Dec 13, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Fred
> >>>
> >>> Two points.
> >>>
> >>> 1)  Add Paris
> >>>
> >>> 2)  Not just cost of fuel, but operational performance on those SF
> >> hills.  Somewhat similar situation in Seattle.  But who can explain
> Dayton?
> >>>
> >>> Dwight
> >>>
> >>> From: Fred Schneider
> >>> Sent: Friday, 13 December, 2013 12:34
> >>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
> >>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] visual pollution or work of art
> >>> I think there is a basic premise that if you put two people in a room,
> >> Dennis, you have a potential argument.    Politicians have learned to
> use
> >> them to their advantage.
> >>>
> >>> As Phillip pointed out, the long lens can be deliberately used to make
> >> the trolley wires look ugly.   The telephoto lens can also be used in
> hilly
> >> cities like San Francisco and Pittsburgh to enhance the view, make the
> >> streets look steeper, and make the distant objects seem closer.    If we
> >> used a 28 mm lens to take the slide (or 15 mm on digital) many of us
> would
> >> never find the wires objectionable.   But there will always be those who
> >> will see the ugly … otherwise New York, Washington and London would have
> >> never been forced to invest fortunes in underground conduit to power
> their
> >> trolley lines.
> >>>
> >>> But I see nothing more than a San Francisco Chronicle photographer who
> >> was asked to make it look ugly to support the visual pollution theme in
> the
> >> article.   He was sent out to prove a point.   Very little journalism
> today
> >> is unbiased.   You get readers, then advertisers, and make money if you
> >> jump into the middle of a debate.
> >>>
> >>> In the 1940s, General Electric published a booklet in which they aimed,
> >> of course, to sell their hardware.   They explained that if you could
> fill
> >> your vehicle, on average, every five minutes, then buy PCC cars.   If
> the
> >> traffic required service every 5 to 7 minutes, use trolley buses.
> Over 7
> >> minutes, use diesel buses.   If the service was erratic, then use
> gasoline
> >> buses.   Of course those were average economics in the 1940s.  That
> window
> >> for trolley buses vanished as we bought cars after the war and most
> cities
> >> which bought them found they had made a huge mistake by the early 1950s.
> >> San Francisco was the exception because the city owned its own
> >> hydro-electric plant in the Sierra Nevada mountains … except for paying
> >> Pacific Gas and Electric a transmission charge, the power was almost
> free.
> >>  So while most cities got rid of their trackless trolleys, Muni kept
> >> theirs.   I guess if Muni has any sense, they will keep the electric
> >> network because the price of fossil fuels can only go up as the global
> >> supply diminishes.
> >>>
> >>> Wouldn't you like to see a survey showing how many of the complainers
> >> about the visual pollution from the wires ride transit and how many
> drive
> >> their own cars?   And perhaps also how many realize how much their taxes
> >> might go up if they had to pay for fossil fuels to run the network and
> how
> >> many of the protesters are clueless?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:44 AM, DF Cramer wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Not Pennsylvania-----but some of us consider wire work an integral
> part
> >> of the electric transit experience and some do not. You decide----I
> think
> >> the photographer was leaning towards art.
> >>>>
> >>
> http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Muni-trolley-wire-visual-pollution-electrifies-5056671.php
> >>>>
> >>>> Dennis F. Cramer
> >>>> http://home.windstream.net/dfc1/
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Herb Brannon
> >
> >
> > *In Pittsburgh.............................A City And.........A State of
> > Mind *
> > Let's Go Pens
> > Let's Go Steelers
> >
> >
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-- 
Herb Brannon

*In Pittsburgh.............................A City And.........A State of
Mind *
Let's Go Pens
Let's Go Steelers

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