[PRCo] visual pollution or work of art

Mon Dec 16 06:48:52 EST 2013

it was.

same dick who founded dick corporation:

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/dick-corporation-history/

On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>wrote:

>
> Fred
>
> Was not the full name of the company Noble J. Dick?
>
> Dwight
>
> From: Fred Schneider
> Sent: Sunday, 15 December, 2013 19:50
> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
> Subject: Re: [PRCo] visual pollution or work of art
> Is that a maintenance issue or a design flaw, Herb?   You might use that
> turn signal ten times a mile on a bus if its a busy urban route.   You
> might use it ten times a day in your own automobile.   You would put more
> wear on the turn signal mechanism in six months on that bus than you would
> on the one in your car between the time it rolled off the showroom floor
> and you towed it to the junkyard.
>
> I have to admit that I have ridden very few buses since the transit
> agencies became wards of government.   It isn't the same fun it was going
> out to McKeesport on the trolley and coming back on Noble Dick's bus.   (I
> love that name.)    They all look alike today.  But back in the old days
> when the earth was still cooling, I cannot remember a lot of problems.   I
> never saw a driver holding the turn signal to keep it flashing.   So I
> suspect it is just a case of transit authorities not wishing to spend bucks
> that governments aren't giving them.  They've probably been told to keep
> them on the streets until enough goes wrong to justify getting a federal
> grant to do a complete overhaul.
>
> Herb, I remember driving a school bus one day that had a brake failure.
> The school district business manager's response was, "It's an old bus and
> we don't plan to fix it."   My immediate comment was, "If a kid gets hurt,
> I will have a very long memory.   Think about that."   A week later I was
> called in my classroom at the end of the day to take a bus run for a driver
> who didn't show up.   I asked what bus.   I was told it was the one I
> complained about but not to worry, they had spent over a thousand dollars
> fixing it so that they wouldn't have me telling the newspapers.   Herb, it
> was an old bus … and I knew how to double-clutch it and use the engine to
> help stop me when the brake pedal went to the floor.   Can you imagine
> someone who didn't know how to downshift it?
>
> But when I first saw those foot pedal turn signals in Atlanta as a
> 16-year-old, I thought it was a neat idea to use the left foot that wasn't
> otherwise needed on an automatic GM.   Left hand steers, left foot hits the
> turn signal, right hand makes change … talk about multi-tasking.   You
> could not have done that with a manual transmission Brill or Ford.   Hell,
> you would have needed both hands just to steer it away from the curb.
>
>
> On Dec 15, 2013, at 7:08 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>
> > New York TA started using them in the 1950s. Columbus, OH had some GM New
> > Looks with them in the 1960s. The buses equipped with the turn signal
> > "arms" on the steering column were always a pain in the @$$. The arms,
> > after they wore out, required the operator to keep hands on the arm to
> keep
> > the signal flashing. I have had them fall off the steering column because
> > they were so worn out they couldn't take it any longer. Typical of US
> auto
> > manufacturers (GM to be exact) to think every vehicle could use the same
> > flimsy piece of equipment no matter how much service it was to see. New
> > York started the foot switch because of "hands on the steering wheel"
> > safety reasons. Not sure about Columbus.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Where did the idea for foot operated turn signals originate Herb?   Any
> >> idea?
> >>
> >> I first saw such a thing on Atlanta Transit System buses back in 1956.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 15, 2013, at 5:58 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> >>
> >>> The GM's were a problem when I worked at PATransit also. PAT purchases
> of
> >>> GM buses beginning with the 2100-series had an interesting option on
> >> them.
> >>> The left side of the bus floor, by the pedals, (where the deadman pedal
> >>> would be on a PCC) had four (4) foot operated switches. One was the
> >>> high-beam/low beam headlamp control, another two were the left and
> right
> >>> turn signals and the fourth one was to the rear of the turn signal
> >>> switches. This switch was a "transmission override" which, when pushed
> >> with
> >>> the left heel, would cause the transmission to drop from high to low
> >> gear.
> >>> This was for use on the hills. When the bus would "dog out" going up
> the
> >>> hill you would kick the transmission into low using this floor switch
> and
> >>> would keep going up the hill at a somewhat reasonable rate of speed.
> >>>
> >>> Some thought was actually put into the placement of the four switches
> on
> >>> the floor. You could rest your left foot with the shoe-toe between the
> >> turn
> >>> signal switches and the left shoe-heel just to the right of the
> >>> transmission override switch. You could then operate those three
> switches
> >>> just with a simple quick movement of the left toe or heel to the
> desired
> >>> switch. The high beam switch required the foot to be lifted up and over
> >> the
> >>> turn signal switches to hit it. However, this switch was not used that
> >>> often. Also, the placement  of these switches was so that the left foot
> >> was
> >>> in a comfortable position, similar to the position of the left foot on
> a
> >>> PCC deadman pedal.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Bob Rathke <bobrathke at comcast.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> When PRC bussed the 1-Spring Garden and 5-Spring Hill lines in Oct.,
> >> 1957,
> >>>> they replaced the trolleys with then-new Mack buses. The Mack buses
> >> handled
> >>>> the hill with ease, but in 1958 GM buses started to appear on Spring
> >> Hill
> >>>> and they really labored just to maintain a slow speed.
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>
> >>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >>>> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion" <
> >>>> pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org>
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:11:28 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] visual pollution or work of art
> >>>>
> >>>> I was not aware that Paris was conduit also.   My library on Germany,
> >>>> Switzerland and Britain is extensive … then it gets a little thin.
> >> Paris
> >>>> was also one of those cities that quit before
> >>>>
> >>>> Explaining Dayton would be like trying to explain why a retard in
> >>>> Johnstown thought he was doing something right by converting
> streetcars
> >> to
> >>>> trolley buses in 1960 when he could see he was already losing his
> shirt.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am not sure how much difference the trolley bus performance is
> >> compared
> >>>> to today's diesels and better transmissions.    If you were talking
> >> 1950, I
> >>>> would have given you a resounding AMEN.   Today I am not sure.   I
> >> remember
> >>>> ACF Brill C36 buses crawling up Kissel Hill at 15 mph in second gear
> in
> >> the
> >>>> 1950s heading into Lititz.   Today's newer diesels sail up at 40.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Dec 13, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Fred
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Two points.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1)  Add Paris
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2)  Not just cost of fuel, but operational performance on those SF
> >>>> hills.  Somewhat similar situation in Seattle.  But who can explain
> >> Dayton?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dwight
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: Fred Schneider
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, 13 December, 2013 12:34
> >>>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] visual pollution or work of art
> >>>>> I think there is a basic premise that if you put two people in a
> room,
> >>>> Dennis, you have a potential argument.    Politicians have learned to
> >> use
> >>>> them to their advantage.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As Phillip pointed out, the long lens can be deliberately used to
> make
> >>>> the trolley wires look ugly.   The telephoto lens can also be used in
> >> hilly
> >>>> cities like San Francisco and Pittsburgh to enhance the view, make the
> >>>> streets look steeper, and make the distant objects seem closer.    If
> we
> >>>> used a 28 mm lens to take the slide (or 15 mm on digital) many of us
> >> would
> >>>> never find the wires objectionable.   But there will always be those
> who
> >>>> will see the ugly … otherwise New York, Washington and London would
> have
> >>>> never been forced to invest fortunes in underground conduit to power
> >> their
> >>>> trolley lines.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But I see nothing more than a San Francisco Chronicle photographer
> who
> >>>> was asked to make it look ugly to support the visual pollution theme
> in
> >> the
> >>>> article.   He was sent out to prove a point.   Very little journalism
> >> today
> >>>> is unbiased.   You get readers, then advertisers, and make money if
> you
> >>>> jump into the middle of a debate.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the 1940s, General Electric published a booklet in which they
> aimed,
> >>>> of course, to sell their hardware.   They explained that if you could
> >> fill
> >>>> your vehicle, on average, every five minutes, then buy PCC cars.   If
> >> the
> >>>> traffic required service every 5 to 7 minutes, use trolley buses.
> >> Over 7
> >>>> minutes, use diesel buses.   If the service was erratic, then use
> >> gasoline
> >>>> buses.   Of course those were average economics in the 1940s.  That
> >> window
> >>>> for trolley buses vanished as we bought cars after the war and most
> >> cities
> >>>> which bought them found they had made a huge mistake by the early
> 1950s.
> >>>> San Francisco was the exception because the city owned its own
> >>>> hydro-electric plant in the Sierra Nevada mountains … except for
> paying
> >>>> Pacific Gas and Electric a transmission charge, the power was almost
> >> free.
> >>>> So while most cities got rid of their trackless trolleys, Muni kept
> >>>> theirs.   I guess if Muni has any sense, they will keep the electric
> >>>> network because the price of fossil fuels can only go up as the global
> >>>> supply diminishes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wouldn't you like to see a survey showing how many of the complainers
> >>>> about the visual pollution from the wires ride transit and how many
> >> drive
> >>>> their own cars?   And perhaps also how many realize how much their
> taxes
> >>>> might go up if they had to pay for fossil fuels to run the network and
> >> how
> >>>> many of the protesters are clueless?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:44 AM, DF Cramer wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Not Pennsylvania-----but some of us consider wire work an integral
> >> part
> >>>> of the electric transit experience and some do not. You decide----I
> >> think
> >>>> the photographer was leaning towards art.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Muni-trolley-wire-visual-pollution-electrifies-5056671.php
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dennis F. Cramer
> >>>>>> http://home.windstream.net/dfc1/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Herb Brannon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *In Pittsburgh.............................A City And.........A State
> of
> >>> Mind *
> >>> Let's Go Pens
> >>> Let's Go Steelers
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
> >> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> >> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Herb Brannon
> >
> >
> > *In Pittsburgh.............................A City And.........A State of
> > Mind *
> > Let's Go Pens
> > Let's Go Steelers
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
>
>
>
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